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  • Stock exchange and economic boost

    Want to run a business, make money, look for a job or just chat about the latest stock prices? This is the place.

    Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Verion » Sat May 10, 2014 2:53 pm

    I feel that we need to get our micronational economics to run better. If they run at all currently. Therefore, I propose that we look into the idea of reviving the stock market and get some trading done in this place.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Andreas the Wise » Wed May 14, 2014 11:40 am

    Are you thinking Erik's Stock Market part, or the SCX?
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Verion » Wed May 14, 2014 1:06 pm

    I had the SCX in mind when I wrote this but it doesn't really matter, as long as there is a decent stock exchange that could be the foundation of our economic system.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Andreas the Wise » Wed May 14, 2014 10:18 pm

    Cool. Cool cool cool. See my thoughts here. There wasn't any real interest at the time, but this is still entirely plausible (though if we were to do it, I might get someone more involved to do the manual modding of prices, to make sure it happens - one of the reasons I stopped pushing for this is that I started lacking the time/involvement to make it happen myself).
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Verion » Thu May 15, 2014 10:47 am

    That's one interesting text, Andreas. I think your conclusions are absolutely right. The key to this is of course participation. It only works as there is a substantial amount of people interested in aquiring stock and starting a business. I also think that perhaps the SCX would need a 'reset' because the current offered stocks do in no way represent active companies. Of course it would be hard to make actual exchange rates with only a few companies and a few people trading (which will lead to very strong fluctuation) but I think that is the only way to have a stock market that really represents the value of companies.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Theoaster Niladesh » Fri May 16, 2014 3:40 am

    Mr Brunswick,

    Andreas has the system in place. Thanks to his genius. But, Mr Brunswick, Micras is super-rich dominated. money concentration is at the focal point of power in Micras. And who is the focal point of power in Micras now? I will not state who that individual is. It would get me in trouble with Thadeus, at least when he's not flying off into space. But it is not Andreas. Hint: He's a citizen of Shireroth. You should maybe curry favor with him. Hint #2: Despite the use of the word "curry" in the prior sentence, the fulcrum of power in Micras is also not Aryeztur. You are a rich man, Mr Brunswick. I can tell by your suit and business titles. But if you want to get even richer, and carryout projects liek hydroelectric dams and naval fleet constructions, You need at least 25,000 erb and the backing of a government. try loans. and though my father-in-law Thadeus is not in economics very much anymore, other than to sign his pension and trust fund checks when he goes to cash them to pay the rent on his penthouses, casino and room service tabs, and jet fuel, you should copy his past behaviors if you want to duplicate CWG. "nothing ventured, nothing gained" well, he once told me that anyway. he could just have been joking around. oh yeah hint #3: the fulcrum of power is not thadeus either. thadeus has decided against political power on a large scale on purpose. (actually it is ari who controls all in the bastion nations, but, on a day to day level, it is someone else. and that someone is whom you need to speak to.) do i ramble? people say i ramble. thadeus does all the time. just kidding old man thaddy!

    Mr "the Wise",

    Now two cents for you: Yeah, the random stuff is cool and realistic but, well, not interactive. we want interactive. not only do we want interactive, we want power ! ! ! if, Andreas, you could achieve a balance between the two things, interactivity and control, that would be great. Say, put a SimCity like twister economic crash or downturn randomizer in every period or two to keep things fair and interesting. or, imagine, an economic boom time with dividends for everyone! Random event generators have been discussed before on Micras....
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Verion » Fri May 16, 2014 6:26 am

    Mr Niladesh,

    I assure you that, with my current financial status, there are no economic limitations for me. My fortune does not require me to take loans, in fact, I am offering them. My fortune well extends said 25,000 erb and is larger than the budget of most countries. I don't know who you say runs all bastion countries, but I would be interested to learn his name.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Andreas the Wise » Fri May 16, 2014 9:25 am

    Jack wrote:That's one interesting text, Andreas. I think your conclusions are absolutely right. The key to this is of course participation. It only works as there is a substantial amount of people interested in aquiring stock and starting a business. I also think that perhaps the SCX would need a 'reset' because the current offered stocks do in no way represent active companies. Of course it would be hard to make actual exchange rates with only a few companies and a few people trading (which will lead to very strong fluctuation) but I think that is the only way to have a stock market that really represents the value of companies.

    I would be happy to do a reset if there was wide interest. Alternatively, we could set up an exchange which is only for companies who are trading the right to own/control their company on the SCX.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Verion » Fri May 16, 2014 2:19 pm

    Yes, and some of those old ones could easily be archived. We shouldn't really keep all that FloJ and Apollo stuff there since it would only cloud the exchange. Perhaps start a new exchange and set up a one month period during which companies could apply to join.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Cabbage » Fri May 30, 2014 5:15 pm

    Given the response this gets that would be an awesome idea, so many nations would participate and it would be really active and interesting.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Verion » Fri May 30, 2014 5:36 pm

    How unfortunate.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Verion » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:14 am

    I am afraid I have to conclude that the plan to revitalise the economy has failed. Quite frankly, I don't see this changing in the near future. If there are still people with plans to do something with the economy, I am willing to lend a hand but I fear it is impossible to really get the economic simulation running at this point.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Ryker » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:56 pm

    Because giving up has always shown to be the best option when zero risk is present.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Verion » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:14 pm

    Why don't you mind your own business?
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Andreas the Wise » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:44 pm

    Jack wrote:I am afraid I have to conclude that the plan to revitalise the economy has failed. Quite frankly, I don't see this changing in the near future. If there are still people with plans to do something with the economy, I am willing to lend a hand but I fear it is impossible to really get the economic simulation running at this point.

    With micronational economics, you always need to get a decent sized core group (say 5+ people) interested to have any realistic chance of success. That's just micronational life.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Ryker » Sun Jun 08, 2014 12:05 am

    Jack wrote:Why don't you mind your own business?

    Because, thanks to such a small economy, I don't really have one. (c'mon, you had to have seen that coming)
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Ambassador Moa Fino » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:36 pm

    Andreas the Wise wrote:
    Jack wrote:That's one interesting text, Andreas. I think your conclusions are absolutely right. The key to this is of course participation. It only works as there is a substantial amount of people interested in aquiring stock and starting a business. I also think that perhaps the SCX would need a 'reset' because the current offered stocks do in no way represent active companies. Of course it would be hard to make actual exchange rates with only a few companies and a few people trading (which will lead to very strong fluctuation) but I think that is the only way to have a stock market that really represents the value of companies.

    I would be happy to do a reset if there was wide interest. Alternatively, we could set up an exchange which is only for companies who are trading the right to own/control their company on the SCX.

    As a major fan of SCUE in general, and the SCX specifically, I would personally support a reset. I regret that I seem to have discovered the SCX after most of the interest had already died out :? .

    Jack wrote:I am afraid I have to conclude that the plan to revitalise the economy has failed. Quite frankly, I don't see this changing in the near future. If there are still people with plans to do something with the economy, I am willing to lend a hand but I fear it is impossible to really get the economic simulation running at this point.

    I've spent a substantial part of the past year trying to figure out a workable, SCX based economy, and the New Zimian economic model is the best I've been able to come up with. Here is an example of a company which is based on the model. The basic idea is that in order to acquire goods from producers, consumers must invest in the stock market.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Verion » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:46 pm

    I think that would indeed work to ensure the possibility of buying and selling but that would be very role-play based. I think many micronationalists, including myself, don't view micronationalism that way. I, for instance, am not so much the character I assume, except in the political debate, but far more the nation/group/political fraction that character represents. I think that this way of looking at economics doesn't enable a working macroeconomical model. Of course we could create a model in which all of the citizens have to have a house, food etc. but I fear that would transform micronations in a kind of Age of Empires 2.0 and I think that is not what we should strive for.
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Malliki Nur Pinito » Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:56 pm

    Micronational economies will never work in the long run because we have no scarcity. We always get everything. The only scarce thing around is activity, and how do we put a price on that?
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    Re: Stock exchange and economic boost

    Postby Ambassador Moa Fino » Wed Jul 02, 2014 10:29 pm

    Jack wrote:I think that would indeed work to ensure the possibility of buying and selling but that would be very role-play based. I think many micronationalists, including myself, don't view micronationalism that way. I, for instance, am not so much the character I assume, except in the political debate, but far more the nation/group/political fraction that character represents. I think that this way of looking at economics doesn't enable a working macroeconomical model. Of course we could create a model in which all of the citizens have to have a house, food etc. but I fear that would transform micronations in a kind of Age of Empires 2.0 and I think that is not what we should strive for.


    What sort of things would there be in an interest in buying? I ask because the model I've developed could be applied to all sorts of different industries, not just real estate. While my applications of it thus far have been focused on more role-play elements such as real estate, it could also apply to services, for instance. If I fancy myself a military genius, then I could add myself to the SCX, and any government needing a Minister of Defense could employ me by investing in me. If suddenly someone else applies for the position of military advisor, then I would have to up my game, or else my employer could end their investment in me, and instead invest in him. If I lose all of my investments then I go broke, and I either have to find my way back in or find a different line of work. I don't think this is terribly different from what Andreas proposed earlier.

    Malliki Nur Pinito wrote:Micronational economies will never work in the long run because we have no scarcity. We always get everything. The only scarce thing around is activity, and how do we put a price on that?


    I think that we should try to remain open to the possibility that a good, workable idea might roll along, even though it hasn't happened yet. All it will take is a moment of genius, and we will have the basis for a solid economic model that addresses the problem you describe.
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