Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

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Thadeus Laing
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Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Thadeus Laing »

For the record, I am disappointed that His Excellency Opyeme Time, a.k.a. Duke Sinclair, has opted to use this news article to politicize what is basically a routine administrative procedure of the SCUE Bank, that is, removing currency from a subdivision of a nation that has been dissolved by the local authorities:

http://hamland.mncommunities.org/commun ... 19#pid3419

A SCUE Administrator should simply perform the routine actions of the bank, without issuing highly opinionated commentary or hyperbolic explanations--at least not ones that puts down one nation while praising others. At least Andreas the Wise was always quite good about never doing such things. If the SCUE is being turned into a something more political, then further participation and interest may decline.

In my opinion, Mr Time should issue a correction to his article that makes public his other role as SCUE Administrator as well as issue an apology.

House Meir
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by House Meir »

This wasn't done by the SCUE. I just moved Neridian money and assets out of Shireroth. NOT DONE BY SCUE AT ALL. Personal choice, personal move. You out of all people should understand that, Giles.
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Thadeus Laing
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Thadeus Laing »

There is still no reason for the SCUE Administrator to politicize a simple
movement of funds. The SCUE Administrator is supposed to be above
that. However I understand your point, Edgard.
Last edited by Thadeus Laing on Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

House Meir
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by House Meir »

I think he was writing as a Hammish leader, and not as SCUE admin. If it was as SCUE admin, it would have been on the Hub.MN forum.

I am sure you will indulge him on that, given that you have so many characters and different hats as well?
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Vilhelm Benkern
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

Indeed, it's possible to view these kinds of stats at this page on the bank: http://shireroth.org/bank/bankstats.php

Nonetheless this demonstrates the problem of having someone so ridiculously polemical in charge of what should be a neutral organisation. The proposal about taxation was acknowledged and welcomed by Andreas, but he never did it. There is a history of people in micronations, like Sander who had a strong hand in making phpBank such a widely used bit of kit across Micras and Andreas who in his later micronational years kept to Gralus and a tiny corner of Shireroth, who are neutral, non-aggressive making great contributions to the international economy. Duke Sinclair acts clearly in his own interests so much that it's hard to view him as a neutral party.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
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Thadeus Laing
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Thadeus Laing »

I am sure you will indulge him on that, given that you have so many characters and different hats as well?
Since I assume that was a rhetorical question, Edgard,
I hope you will excuse me for being too lazy to respond.
My tea is brewing and I need to refill my cup now. Also
I think I will stop by the window and count how many
cars on the road that have sunroofs.
Benkern wrote: Nonetheless this demonstrates the problem of having someone so ridiculously polemical in charge of what should be a neutral organisation. The proposal about taxation was acknowledged and welcomed by Andreas, but he never did it. There is a history of people in micronations, like Sander who had a strong hand in making phpBank such a widely used bit of kit across Micras and Andreas who in his later micronational years kept to Gralus and a tiny corner of Shireroth, who are neutral, non-aggressive making great contributions to the international economy. Duke Sinclair acts clearly in his own interests so much that it's hard to view him as a neutral party.
My point exactly, I agree 100%.

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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by House Meir »

Thadeus Lange Jr wrote:
I am sure you will indulge him on that, given that you have so many characters and different hats as well?
Since I assume that was a rhetorical question, Edgard,
I hope you will excuse me for being too lazy to respond.
My tea is brewing and I need to refill my cup now. Also
I think I will stop by the window and count how many
cars on the road that have sunroofs.
I do as well... I was simply trying to connect it to an experience you may be familiar with to better understand the situation... but whatever, enjoy your fake tea.
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Cannassas Siva
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Cannassas Siva »

Thadeus Lange Jr wrote:For the record, I am disappointed that His Excellency Opyeme Time, a.k.a. Duke Sinclair, has opted to use this news article to politicize what is basically a routine administrative procedure of the SCUE Bank, that is, removing currency from a subdivision of a nation that has been dissolved by the local authorities:

...
A SCUE Administrator should simply perform the routine actions of the bank, without issuing highly opinionated commentary or hyperbolic explanations--at least not ones that puts down one nation while praising others. At least Andreas the Wise was always quite good about never doing such things. If the SCUE is being turned into a something more political, then further participation and interest may decline.

In my opinion, Mr Time should issue a correction to his article that makes public his other role as SCUE Administrator as well as issue an apology.
Opyeme Time and Duke Sinclair are not the same character. This would be made clear if you actually took the time to study Pallisican lore. That said, no such apology will be made on behalf of Duke Sinclair, because Duke Sinclair has nothing to do with the article. Sinclair doesn't even have a country. He exists solely within the hub. Not within Hamland, or any other country.
Vilhelm Benkern wrote:Indeed, it's possible to view these kinds of stats at this page on the bank: http://shireroth.org/bank/bankstats.php

Nonetheless this demonstrates the problem of having someone so ridiculously polemical in charge of what should be a neutral organisation. The proposal about taxation was acknowledged and welcomed by Andreas, but he never did it. There is a history of people in micronations, like Sander who had a strong hand in making phpBank such a widely used bit of kit across Micras and Andreas who in his later micronational years kept to Gralus and a tiny corner of Shireroth, who are neutral, non-aggressive making great contributions to the international economy. Duke Sinclair acts clearly in his own interests so much that it's hard to view him as a neutral party.
If you can name one instance in which Sinclair, as SCUE admin, has acted solely for his own interests, then I will be impressed. The tax and amendment proposals, mind you, wouldn't have benefitted Hamland or Passio-Corum since they both base their economy on the SCX, and not directly on SCUE, and they wouldn't have benefited Duke Sinclair or Time, since neither have personal accounts. Any proposals issued by Sinclair have been fully intended to promote and expand the use of SCUE, rather than the interests of any individual or country. If you can provide evidence otherwise, please do so.

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Vilhelm Benkern
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

You are jumping the gun, Mr Siva. I'm not accusing the new admin of abusing his powers for personal benefit, as I stated this information was publicly available. Instead it is clear to all that he is a divider of opinion, not a unifier. He is polemical - before you study up on Palliscian lore, I suggest a dictionary. Stirring up trouble in SCUE is not the same as making it thrive. It appears to me that he wants to make the SCUE what he wants it to be, not what the community want it to be. As to the possibility of SCUE reforms positively benefitting Hamland or Passio-Corum, the idea that having less tax or more SCUE money itself positively benefiting anyone is currently laughable - it is about the agenda that is being pushed by the new administration.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom

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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Cannassas Siva »

Vilhelm Benkern wrote:You are jumping the gun, Mr Siva. I'm not accusing the new admin of abusing his powers for personal benefit, as I stated this information was publicly available. Instead it is clear to all that he is a divider of opinion, not a unifier. He is polemical - before you study up on Palliscian lore, I suggest a dictionary. Stirring up trouble in SCUE is not the same as making it thrive. It appears to me that he wants to make the SCUE what he wants it to be, not what the community want it to be. As to the possibility of SCUE reforms positively benefitting Hamland or Passio-Corum, the idea that having less tax or more SCUE money itself positively benefiting anyone is currently laughable - it is about the agenda that is being pushed by the new administration.
Your insinutation is clear. Considering that the predominate unifying opinion regarding SCUE is that it isn't worth the time or effort to figure out how to make it work, it stands to reason that the public opinion should be divided, if any progress is ever to be accomplished regarding international trade. If Sinclair was only concerned with crafting SCUE to his vision, he would have not withdrawn his tax decree, and he would not have initiated a community vote regarding the amendment to the charter, nor would he have accepted the outcome of that vote when the proposal was rejected.

Perhaps the tax and compensation policy proposed by SInclair would not have benefitted anyone, and perhaps it wouldn't have worked at all. But at least it was an honest and sincere effort to try improve the bank. That's more than can really be said for any other members of the community, Andreas excluded. Would you rather that no ideas be proposed, rather than controversial ones?

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Vilhelm Benkern
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

If Sinclair was only concerned with crafting SCUE to his vision,he would have not withdrawn his tax decree,
... which he did after protest - and why did he make it in the first place, without any consultation?
and he would not have initiated a community vote regarding the amendment to the charter, nor would he have accepted the outcome of that vote when the proposal was rejected.
That community vote was absolutely necessary to retain any shred of legitimacy, and when you say "accepted", you really mean "acknowledged", as made clear here he intends to press the matter against the popular will.
Would you rather that no ideas be proposed, rather than controversial ones?
Like many others I believe that the SCUE is and should be a minimalist institution which provides a platform for intranational and international economic exchange. It's not a platform for people to impress their vision of the economic systems on 49% of members. His actions threaten the stability of the SCUE. If he would rather have it "his way", shed a bunch of members and exclude large parts of he community, fine - but that is my main allegation which you have not refuted in the least.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom

Cannassas Siva
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Cannassas Siva »

Vilhelm Benkern wrote: ...
... which he did after protest - and why did he make it in the first place, without any consultation?
...
That community vote was absolutely necessary to retain any shred of legitimacy, and when you say "accepted", you really mean "acknowledged", as made clear here he intends to press the matter against the popular will.
...
Like many others I believe that the SCUE is and should be a minimalist institution which provides a platform for intranational and international economic exchange. It's not a platform for people to impress their vision of the economic systems on 49% of members. His actions threaten the stability of the SCUE. If he would rather have it "his way", shed a bunch of members and exclude large parts of he community, fine - but that is my main allegation which you have not refuted in the least.
Regarding your claims that he protested the need to withdraw the decree, I would encoruage you to note that by his second post, the fifth post in the thread, Sinclair expressed a willingness to forego the decree in favor of a community discussion. As to why he didn't start with that discussion: the environment within the community was not conducive to any such discussion. Members were taking no interest in SCUE, until the issue was decreed. Without the decree, no such conversation would have ever been enabled.

The majority of members have not expressed resistance to another vote regarding an amendment proposal, and even if they did, another vote would not discredit the outcome of the original proposal. Can you verify that "he intends to press the matter against the popular will"

Sinclair's actions do not threaten the stability of SCUE to the extent that inactive members do.. Preferably, members who have no interest in using the bank will shed themselves of their membership, and those that remain will adopt more proactive economic policies.

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Vilhelm Benkern
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom

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Verion
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Re: Hammish Article on the Removal of Neridian Funds

Post by Verion »

I had the feeling that my innocent question would steer some things up. ;)
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth

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