Greater Karalakh?
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- Mira Raynora Minor
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Greater Karalakh?
For a while now, I've been thinking about separating Karalakh from Modany and combining it with the Crestfall Downs area of Lichbrook to form a "Greater Karalakh":
I can see pros and cons with this idea. On the pro-side, I'm really feeling inspired by Karalakh and expanding the khanate in this way would provide the impetus to develop the neglected half of the former Crestfall Downs without undermining the core of Lichbrook in Caverden and Woodshire. I also feel that it would make better sense geopolitically. On the con-side, Karalakh is an ethnically homogenous territory at present and there is a concern that the inclusion of the English speaking half of the old Crestfall Downs might dilute this focus.
As this concerns the potential division of a constituent state of Musica, I thought I would raise the topic here and see if the rest of you have any strong feelings...or constructive thoughts.
I can see pros and cons with this idea. On the pro-side, I'm really feeling inspired by Karalakh and expanding the khanate in this way would provide the impetus to develop the neglected half of the former Crestfall Downs without undermining the core of Lichbrook in Caverden and Woodshire. I also feel that it would make better sense geopolitically. On the con-side, Karalakh is an ethnically homogenous territory at present and there is a concern that the inclusion of the English speaking half of the old Crestfall Downs might dilute this focus.
As this concerns the potential division of a constituent state of Musica, I thought I would raise the topic here and see if the rest of you have any strong feelings...or constructive thoughts.
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
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- Vilhelm Benkern
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
I'm glad that you're enjoying experimenting with Karalakh, some very interesting developments are coming out of that part of the continent and I'm sure no-one here wants to arrest them. Would this have any constitutional consequences for this Federation?
As for diluting... a minority can in fact help you focus your homogeneity! Gives you someone to assimilate.
As for diluting... a minority can in fact help you focus your homogeneity! Gives you someone to assimilate.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
- Mira Raynora Minor
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
I'll probably subdivide greater Karalakh into two provinces: one Karalakhi-speaking (Kurpla) and one English-speaking (Crestfall/Krestval).
As to constitutional consequences, Article 2 of the Accord may need to be amended to admit Greater Karalakh as a state separate from Modany. Having said that, it might be worth amending that article anyway in view of the changed situation regarding Azarea.
As to constitutional consequences, Article 2 of the Accord may need to be amended to admit Greater Karalakh as a state separate from Modany. Having said that, it might be worth amending that article anyway in view of the changed situation regarding Azarea.
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
- Mira Raynora Minor
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
Whilst writing the IC justification for these events, it occurred to me that Anthrazita probably wouldn't just cede the land. So instead of making Greater Karalakh a state of Musica, perhaps we could make Lichbrook and Musica its co-suzerains?
Last edited by Mira Raynora Minor on Tue Nov 13, 2012 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
But would Anthrazita want to be her daughter's equal? Wouldn't it be better if Doli were Anthrazita's vassal? Poor frustrated Doli...
Azarea is still technically a state and Doli inherited its countship after the death of her father. If I were her, I would want a feudal place where my mother wouldn't get me.
Azarea is still technically a state and Doli inherited its countship after the death of her father. If I were her, I would want a feudal place where my mother wouldn't get me.
Elijah Ayreon-Dariolin of Waffle-Paine (no longer with us)
Ric.
Ric.
- Mira Raynora Minor
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
This is where the IC desires of my characters conflict with what makes sense on an OOC level! Added to that, I'm not entirely happy with the story I wrote...it just feels a little contrived.
So...it looks like Greater Karalakh is going to be put on hold for a while- at least until I figure out a better explanation for it!
I'm still thinking about separating Karalakh from Modany, though.
So...it looks like Greater Karalakh is going to be put on hold for a while- at least until I figure out a better explanation for it!
I'm still thinking about separating Karalakh from Modany, though.
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
... unless Doli and Mother end up in a fight, refuse to speak to each other, prepare for a war, after which through the mediation of the Concert and the Dirigent, the States of Gr Karalakh and Lichbrook are made equal?
Elijah Ayreon-Dariolin of Waffle-Paine (no longer with us)
Ric.
Ric.
- Mira Raynora Minor
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
That would require a fairly big rewrite of my story...and it would also destroy Lichbrook as a duchy. To be honest, I'm beginning to think that I should keep Karalakh as it is now, given that its present boundaries were specifically demarcated to fit the geographic, historical and ethnic realities of the region.
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
- Mira Raynora Minor
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
I have a question for the Concert: given that Lichbrook recently ceded its share of Shimmerspring to Musica, would Musica allow Karalakh to join Lichbrook (possibly as part of a closer political alliance between the two first tier subdivisions)? That way, I could organise Lichbrook into two autonomous subdivisions (Overdolor and Greater Karalakh), each of two districts.
In IC terms, this would require mother and daughter to bury the hatchet, but with war on the cards, that's not unthinkable.
In IC terms, this would require mother and daughter to bury the hatchet, but with war on the cards, that's not unthinkable.
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
- Mira Raynora Minor
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
I've prepared a map to illustrate what the new Lichbrook would look like:
All the cities in Karalakh are labelled with their Karalakhi names, i.e. Krestvalen for Crestfallen, Ashkeder for Lowbrook (a corruption of ashaki dere - "low brook"), in order to provide a more interesting cultural contrast without sacrificing the original meaning. The other advantages of this arrangment are the concentration of all undead-stuff within a single political entity and a more balanced division of Lichbrook into two equally-sized "super counties".
The main disadvantage is the removal of Karalakh from Musica, but that is mitigated to some extent by the ceding of Shimmerspring and my continued partcipation as Marchioness of Modany. As I mentioned before, I would also like to explore the possibility of a closer relationship between Lichbrook and Musica, if you are amenable.
All the cities in Karalakh are labelled with their Karalakhi names, i.e. Krestvalen for Crestfallen, Ashkeder for Lowbrook (a corruption of ashaki dere - "low brook"), in order to provide a more interesting cultural contrast without sacrificing the original meaning. The other advantages of this arrangment are the concentration of all undead-stuff within a single political entity and a more balanced division of Lichbrook into two equally-sized "super counties".
The main disadvantage is the removal of Karalakh from Musica, but that is mitigated to some extent by the ceding of Shimmerspring and my continued partcipation as Marchioness of Modany. As I mentioned before, I would also like to explore the possibility of a closer relationship between Lichbrook and Musica, if you are amenable.
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
- Vilhelm Benkern
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- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:08 am
Re: Greater Karalakh?
Of course I don't object to what you want to do with your own fiefs- it would be contrary to the spirit of this Federation and this assembly to dictate anything like that. My hope is that this will allow you to coherently bring your Shirerithian contributions together and go forward with your ideas, which are nicely taking shape. It's not necessary to have all of one's projects in Shireroth unified, for example OOC I run Mar Sara in Yardistan and Hawshire-Dura in Kildare, and the only thing that binds the two is that they are islands. However, the family relationship involved and the immediate proximity of the two projects suggests to me that together Lichbrook and Karalakh may be better off. The loss of Karalakh is acceptable to me because I know Musica isn't going to lose its (only and) most creative Marchioness.
In terms of the effect of this proposal on the Federation, it occurs to me that letting go of the Karalakh region may help us realise our destiny, something possibly inherited from Yardistan, of a martime/coastal power within Shireroth, now that we have no in-land territories. Monty Crisco is as good as it gets, and that's still quite close to the mouth of the Elwynn.
I will post the necessary amendments to the Accord in a bit, but I would ask something in return for the loss of Karalakh. (If later we decide that Lichbrook would do well under the Federation, which I personally am ambivalent about, then this is moot.) But it would be really neat if someone could update/recreate a modern version of the Duchies of Shireroth map! And our good Marchioness' skill with paint and the MCS map is undeniable...
In terms of the effect of this proposal on the Federation, it occurs to me that letting go of the Karalakh region may help us realise our destiny, something possibly inherited from Yardistan, of a martime/coastal power within Shireroth, now that we have no in-land territories. Monty Crisco is as good as it gets, and that's still quite close to the mouth of the Elwynn.
I will post the necessary amendments to the Accord in a bit, but I would ask something in return for the loss of Karalakh. (If later we decide that Lichbrook would do well under the Federation, which I personally am ambivalent about, then this is moot.) But it would be really neat if someone could update/recreate a modern version of the Duchies of Shireroth map! And our good Marchioness' skill with paint and the MCS map is undeniable...
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
- Vilhelm Benkern
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- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:08 am
Re: Greater Karalakh?
Also, while we're discussing amendments to the Accord, we should formally co-opt the Barony of Solecism into the Federation for now; or a joint-administration for protection by the Duchy of Lichbrook and Musica would not be out of the question.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
- Mira Raynora Minor
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
Thanks, Benkern...your support is appreciated.
In keeping with the increasingly maritime theme of Musica and as a gesture of goodwill, I shall probably transfer the bulk of the former Brookshire Fleet to Musican control (keeping a few units back for the defense of Lichbrook's sole port). I feel that this is doubly appropriate, given its long association with the ruler of Monty Crisco...
It seems we're on a similar wavelength here. Among the reasons behind my proposal was the realisation that Modany and Karalakh are facing in different directions: the former's historical and spiritual connection to the old Khaz Modanian Empire suggests that it has more in common with Yardistan than inland Karalakh, with its Lichbrook-influenced necrarchy. The inclusion of Shimmerspring is perhaps harder to justify, as it is hardly coastal, but it is possible to explain it as a relatively isolated region whose allegiances are constantly shifting between the rulers of the northern mountains and the civilisations of the southern coastal plains.Vilhelm Benkern wrote:In terms of the effect of this proposal on the Federation, it occurs to me that letting go of the Karalakh region may help us realise our destiny, something possibly inherited from Yardistan, of a martime/coastal power within Shireroth, now that we have no in-land territories. Monty Crisco is as good as it gets, and that's still quite close to the mouth of the Elwynn.
In keeping with the increasingly maritime theme of Musica and as a gesture of goodwill, I shall probably transfer the bulk of the former Brookshire Fleet to Musican control (keeping a few units back for the defense of Lichbrook's sole port). I feel that this is doubly appropriate, given its long association with the ruler of Monty Crisco...
Excellent! And of course I'll work on a new duchy map (although I may have to do that when I'm at home, given the lack faith I have in my memory stick)...sounds like just my thing.Vilhelm Benkern wrote:I will post the necessary amendments to the Accord in a bit, but I would ask something in return for the loss of Karalakh. (If later we decide that Lichbrook would do well under the Federation, which I personally am ambivalent about, then this is moot.) But it would be really neat if someone could update/recreate a modern version of the Duchies of Shireroth map! And our good Marchioness' skill with paint and the MCS map is undeniable...
I would be happy to admit Solecism into the Federation...but might we need the Kaiser's approval for that? Until the situation is resolved, Lichbrook and Musica could provide a temporary joint-administration.Vilhelm Benkern wrote:Also, while we're discussing amendments to the Accord, we should formally co-opt the Barony of Solecism into the Federation for now; or a joint-administration for protection by the Duchy of Lichbrook and Musica would not be out of the question.
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Re: Greater Karalakh?
Are there any people left on Azarea though? Shouldn't all or most of the Sanillan people there have left for free Sanilla?
Malliki Tosha
Acting Xonuti of the Free State of Sanilla
Poluti Poki'i of Sanilla
Acting Xonuti of the Free State of Sanilla
Poluti Poki'i of Sanilla
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
The native Azareans would have gone, but the Laqi and other Brookshire groups residing on the island would probably have stayed. The majority of Azarea's population was, at the time of Sanilla's independence, native Azarean, but a minority was not (maybe 15%?).
Elijah Ayreon-Dariolin of Waffle-Paine (no longer with us)
Ric.
Ric.
- Vilhelm Benkern
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
Maybe we could turn Azarea into a massive nature reserve, since it's now mostly empty.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
- Mira Raynora Minor
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
That's possible...although I'm not going to deport the remaining inhabitants.
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
- Vilhelm Benkern
- Posts: 3833
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:08 am
Re: Greater Karalakh?
Oh no, I wasn't suggesting that, but one can imagine the non-native Azareans were clustered anyway so they can stay in their homes as now exist, we bulldoze an empty settlement or two and introduce some species that are having trouble elsewhere in Benacia.
Hurray!In keeping with the increasingly maritime theme of Musica and as a gesture of goodwill, I shall probably transfer the bulk of the former Brookshire Fleet to Musican control (keeping a few units back for the defense of Lichbrook's sole port). I feel that this is doubly appropriate, given its long association with the ruler of Monty Crisco...
This matter is probably left until the Kaiser's Court is cleared of all Hyperborean and Elwynnese daggers.I would be happy to admit Solecism into the Federation...but might we need the Kaiser's approval for that? Until the situation is resolved, Lichbrook and Musica could provide a temporary joint-administration.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
- Mira Raynora Minor
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Re: Greater Karalakh?
Fair enough.Vilhelm Benkern wrote:Oh no, I wasn't suggesting that, but one can imagine the non-native Azareans were clustered anyway so they can stay in their homes as now exist, we bulldoze an empty settlement or two and introduce some species that are having trouble elsewhere in Benacia.
Agreed.Vilhelm Benkern wrote: This matter is probably left until the Kaiser's Court is cleared of all Hyperborean and Elwynnese daggers.
I'm going to proceed with the transfer of Karalakh from Modany to Lichbrook (and the bulk of the Brookshire Fleet in the opposite direction). There's a lot to be done, so if there are no objections, I want to crack on with it...
Mira Raynora the Younger
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž
Queen of Leichenberg
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Marchioness and Lichgravine of Lachmodan, Countess of Azarea and Ž