Post-Gralus and such

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Kaarrin Isselkaan
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Post-Gralus and such

Post by Kaarrin Isselkaan »

So I think it's pretty much agreed that Gralus is to be nixed, yes? (whenever that whole story bit finishes within a vague timeline)

I think some discussion is in order regarding some related matters. Here are points I would currently like to address:

1) I'm pretty sure that I will be continuing Toketi in the post-Gralus era. What is planned for Novatainia? I know Andreas wants to keep something around, but to what extent I would like clarified.

2) With regards to forum administration and IC politics, shall Toketi be considered the successor state to Gralus? I'd very much like Toketi to remain a member of the Bastion Union, as maintaining my own forums for potentially few people, migrating information, and the like are far more labour-intensive than I care to deal with. Staying with Bastion would be greatly convenient for several people, I'm sure.

3) There seems to be some bull shit going down in Shireroth's Landsraad about them claiming sole administrative rights to Bastion, and I find this unacceptable considering I'm starting to do things again, other people have shown interesting in doing things here again, and I'm not keen on being subject to the whim of another nations monarch who holds no power in my realm. Thoughts? Comments?
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Andreas the Wise
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Re: 1) I'm expecting that most of my Gralus-related projects will be more of a 'helping people see the awesome stories we've created' (\actualising the awesome that is Gralus that exists in my head but doesn't always seem to make it into reality) rather than a 'developing Novatainia further without magic' thing (though with you doing more stuff with Toketi you may yet attract me to do more with Novatainia after Honours - we'll see). Like, Nicholas and I still have slightly-more-than-vague plans to make a computer RPG out of the expeditions (a little like the Control of Destiny games) - we'll see how far that gets; and I really like the idea of storytelling more (i.e. memorising the key elements of short stories to be able to tell them to people, and embellish as much or as little with each telling as I feel like), and want to do the expeditions like this. Both are also a chance to smooth out the rough edges of the original stories, retcon out some of the most obviously ripped off things (like Balrogs), and actually put them in a format that would be approachable for people outside Gralus, even though most of the characters aren't around any more. I'm actually quite excited about this one and feel it reasonably plausible that something will happen with it. That, and if I'm getting more involved with micronational stuff again I may do things with the economy through VBNC. All I really need to do those two things is the island of Glanurchy (the left one on the image below) and the VBNC islands next to Kalla (the top part of the second image)
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I think it's a reasonable assumption that we should reduce Gralus' land and that people will be wanting Gralus to reduce it's land, so I'm happy for us to remove the rest of Novatainia's land to keep the MCS happy.

2) Yes, stay with Bastion, be the successor etc. I'll even give you access to the massive SCUE bank account if you think you'll actually do something with it in the economy.

3) It depends how that eventuates. If it's just Ari being admin, that's fine. If not ... well, we'll see. Technically I'm a founder (as is Harvey, Ari, and maybe Scott), so only one of those guys can actually prevent me being admin, and nobody seems excited enough to do so, so I can stop anything too crazy happening if need be.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave. But he does deserve a cool war ribbon.
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However, this account still manages:
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn - Speaker of Nelaga, Minister of Interior Affairs, and a Micron

Kai Jackson

Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Kai Jackson »

I want to bring Safiria closer to whatever emerges from Gralus, and I wish Gralus weren't dying to the end of all magic, because I wanted to do a magic vs. psionics thing at some point :(

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Orion
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Orion »

So what's stopping you?

I agree the whole "Bastiroth" concept falls down flat if there are other nations that are going to be active here. I also don't think it entails taking over the remnant inactive nations, but rather Shireroth taking on the administrative duties of the forum that were once vested with the founding nations.

Also, I would like to overhaul the area of New North Lovely, going back to my draconic writings about the Marble Palace and Ashintully from the Menelmacari era. I'd just like to make that known now so if there are any objections we can, perhaps, work out something equitable.

Kai Jackson

Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Kai Jackson »

The fact that I'd be Getting In The Way of the end-of-all-magic-and-also-Gralus storyline. :(

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Orion
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Orion »

No, I meant why can't you do something with magic vs psionics after the end of Gralus? Just because magic ends in Gralus doesn't means it ends everywhere!

I'm planning on resurrecting my old ideas from Menelmacar for a return of dragons to the Marble Palace, so that could potentially play into your ideas - but it also needs to mesh with what these guys are planning.

Kai Jackson

Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Kai Jackson »

Because last I heard the storyline for winding up Gralus was going to be the end of magic, full stop.

Also dragons :o *throws a six-legged Safirian dragon at*

Kaarrin Isselkaan
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Kaarrin Isselkaan »

Again I'm hoping for end-of-magic as we know it, rather than a sudden nonexistence.

New North Lovely is Novatainian territory, which I don't see why couldn't be maintained as Toketan territory once the majority of remaining Gralan land goes the way of the dodo. I'm considering relinquishing Chelkra since Prodigy probably isn't coming back, most of its development has been lost, and I'd rather not play around with it, so there should be some fair trading to be done in the restructuring.
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Orion
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Orion »

I was imagining that would be the case. But I'm amenable to whatever outcome is presented and will work with what I'm given and/or able to. I don't particularly need all of New North Lovely, just the areas around the former city of Ash Fort and the ruins of the Marble Palace, which is probably about a third of NNL's land area. I'm also not too keen on what background was developed for NNL and will probably just ignore it unless it's the consensus to retain that material, in which case I'll probably do something else entirely. So really I'm just throwing ideas around and will wait to see what the final outcome is before setting something in stone.

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Jonas
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Jonas »

3) There seems to be some bull shit going down in Shireroth's Landsraad about them claiming sole administrative rights to Bastion, and I find this unacceptable considering I'm starting to do things again, other people have shown interesting in doing things here again, and I'm not keen on being subject to the whim of another nations monarch who holds no power in my realm. Thoughts? Comments?
Please calm down! As you should have noticed it was a proposal on a moment that all nations on this forum were as good as dead, with exception of Shireroth.
Besides that it never was the plan to take over the other nations, but just the forum administration (as I saw it: placing the Shirerithian fora more to the frontpage, while still keeping the fora of the other nations around and independent). That said, the bill failed to pass, and if Toketi indeed gets revived, I see not much reason for Shireroth running the place (that said: I'm still in favour for scrapping the general, scared fora, to let visitors immediately focus on the nations' links).
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Andreas the Wise
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Andreas the Wise »

If you were going to keep it as part of Toketi, some acknowledgement of the Novatainian history of New North Lovely would be nice (even if some part of the final magic stuff ends up catalytically changing the climate I developed or the like, that's totally fine).
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave. But he does deserve a cool war ribbon.
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However, this account still manages:
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn - Speaker of Nelaga, Minister of Interior Affairs, and a Micron

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Orion
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Orion »

That was my primary concern, as wayyyy back when it was Menelmacari it was described as all forest, not desert. Although the suggestion of a magical catalyst does give me ideas... hmmm...

Andreas the Wise
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Andreas the Wise »

In Gralan history, that period was several millennia ago (the kingdom of Novatainia is taken to have been formed out of the dying kingdoms when they all got carved up in that region on one MCS map, as Prince Nova from one kingdom progressively conquered the others and formed Novatainia, even if it took another millennia or two before we appeared back on the MCS map), so in a land full of magic, it seems plausible enough to me that its climate changed in that time, and that it could change back. I've always taken a very flexible approach to climate in developing Novatainia, I just like some acknowledgement of the history of the nation or two in the land before we colonised it (hence you get New Territory based off New Britannian colonisation, and New North Lovely, from when Lovely ruled, and so on.)
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave. But he does deserve a cool war ribbon.
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However, this account still manages:
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn - Speaker of Nelaga, Minister of Interior Affairs, and a Micron

Kaarrin Isselkaan
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Kaarrin Isselkaan »

Jonas wrote: Please calm down! As you should have noticed it was a proposal on a moment that all nations on this forum were as good as dead, with exception of Shireroth.
Besides that it never was the plan to take over the other nations, but just the forum administration (as I saw it: placing the Shirerithian fora more to the frontpage, while still keeping the fora of the other nations around and independent). That said, the bill failed to pass, and if Toketi indeed gets revived, I see not much reason for Shireroth running the place (that said: I'm still in favour for scrapping the general, scared fora, to let visitors immediately focus on the nations' links).
My main concern was that administrative power was being handed to the Kaiser, who would have pretty much sole discretion over who else would be administration and how the boards would be administrated. It could lead to a situation where a Kaiser might decide "bollocks to those Gralan assholes", remove any say we might have in admin and mod issues, muck around with our forums, or even theoretically evict us with no notice and no means of appeal.

In all reality, Ari would have aneurysm and fix everything unilaterally and I'd be somewhat okay with that, but primary admin control cannot be given to the monarch of one nation when several other nations share the boards with them, otherwise the potential for abuse is too great.

I wasn't making too big a deal over it, and I saw that it was (for the time being) shot down, but it was something I thought should be addressed anyway.
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Jonas
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Jonas »

Kaarrin Isselkaan wrote: My main concern was that administrative power was being handed to the Kaiser, who would have pretty much sole discretion over who else would be administration and how the boards would be administrated. It could lead to a situation where a Kaiser might decide "bollocks to those Gralan assholes", remove any say we might have in admin and mod issues, muck around with our forums, or even theoretically evict us with no notice and no means of appeal.

In all reality, Ari would have aneurysm and fix everything unilaterally and I'd be somewhat okay with that, but primary admin control cannot be given to the monarch of one nation when several other nations share the boards with them, otherwise the potential for abuse is too great.

I wasn't making too big a deal over it, and I saw that it was (for the time being) shot down, but it was something I thought should be addressed anyway.
I understand your concerns. It's one of the reasons the proposal was shot down in the first place. :wink:
Important characters:
Frederik Alfons des Vinandy-Paravel, King of Batavia
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare

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Orion
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Orion »

Andreas - I've taken your lead as of late and have been following suit by writing histories that are inclusive of the previous occupants - or at least attempting to work it into the backstory. So if your wish is to retain that information, then I'll make certain to work it into the history as you suggested.


Also: You guys might want to figure out, while you're discussing it, how much you want to pare back Gralus' lands for whenever you decide to broach this with the MCS. I'm honestly surprised they haven't asked for a reduction yet, but it's inevitable given the circumstances, and it'd be prudent to work out a plan ahead of time. If Kaarrin is going to be the only one in Toketi, then it seems likely that they won't want him to keep all that land.

Kaarrin Isselkaan
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Kaarrin Isselkaan »

I'll put together a kind of "maximum allowable reduction" in accordance with my current plans later today when I'm finished work. I probably wouldn't be too miffed if I had to give up Larned, I'll probably drop Chelkra, but I'd like to maintain as much of Rantëran as possible, plus Kallå if Ric wants to keep working on it.

I probably won't be the only person in Toketi. Others have shown some interest, at least...
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Deimos Jasonides
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Deimos Jasonides »

Kallå isn't that big but I would very much like to have them in Toketi. I really enjoyed working with Kallå and I intend doing stuff with that.
Deimos Jasonides| Деймоос Ясооннаи | Deimoos Jasoonnai
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Former Prime Minister of the State of Talenore
Former Sovereign Prince of Elwynn

Just another Ric

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Harvey
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Harvey »

Regarding the whole Shireroth-Bastion thing, I'd say "my bad!" if I felt it was actually bad. I'd been harping on them to take a more active roll in the guiding of Bastion pretty much all year. I'm a bit confused that you guys are uppity about this when you haven't done anything significant in the past two years... frankly, the fact that this has spurred discussion among the ruins means its already starting to work.

In any event, the idea behind that whole move (at least from where I am sitting) was to finally resolve that odd situation where nobody has been able to speak for Bastion as a whole, and so nobody had an interest in its growth, development, or preservation. We'd rather let the roof start leaking and the cobwebs grow thick, I'm afraid. Less metaphorically, several nations have wanted to join but been informally rejected because nobody had the authority to say yes and the people like Andreas and I that used to force votes aren't active. Having the strongest Bastion nation be able to actually handle things like this on the boards seems like a step in the right direction. It's less about ordering other nations around (frankly, it should be 0% even with the possibility of ordering other nations around) and more maintaining and developing the Bastion forums as a whole.

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Kaiser Aiomide
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Re: Post-Gralus and such

Post by Kaiser Aiomide »

I'm glad that there is somebody around here that gets it.

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