Discussion 2: Form of Government

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Malliki
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Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Malliki »

Shireroth has since time immemorial (or at least a year or so after its foundation), been a so-called Imperial Republic, with a Kaiser with vast powers at the apex. Do we wish to change this fact? Do we wish to change the relationship between the Kaiser and the other organs of state?
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

I think having a leader as strong as the Kaiser is probably the best way of managing a micronation, and in Shireroth our convention of replacing him every couple of months keeps the leadership fresh. The benefit of having a Kaiser is that in times of low activity, government does not fall apart. The more we rely on, for example, the Landsraad and its slow processes, the more we cripple ourselves when we're inactive. Shireroth's autocrat model is quite nice in the sense that rebellions and removals of the Kaiser are possible within law.

I would hope we all agree that whatever constitutional arrangement we recommend to the Kaiser, we keep the title. Have him elected and encumbered- but, for the sake of the cultural works that have been and will be written, let's not remove the title.

I will allow another member of this committee to articulate the problems with the current set-up so we can discuss all the possible alternatives to a Kaisership, or alternatives within a Kaisership model.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
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Mira Raynora Major
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Mira Raynora Major »

I don't think there's any question of not having a Kaiser, but I do think we need to limit the scope of zir powers. Changing our monarch every two-three months is a good idea, as it encourages participation and fresh ideas; but when the monarch has such wide-ranging power that they are effectively able to set the tone for the entire nation, then you have a recipe for trouble. A lot of dark episodes in Shireroth's past can be traced to new Kaisers deciding to change things, sometimes as a panic-response to perceived inactivity, sometimes because they want to shake things up a bit and sometimes because they simply want to "make their mark" while they have the chance. And that's all well and good...until those "big ideas" screw up other people's plans.

Ultimately however, I don't think it's a case of altering the relationship between the Kaiser and the organs of state, so much as limiting the ability of the central government as a whole to interfere with the duchies. That is why a federal system with defined competencies is probably the only long-term solution.
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Malliki »

If we only address the imperial government and not its relationship with the subdivisions (we'll get to that in the next discussion), how do we want to curb the powers of the Kaiser? Either we put the restrictions in the constitution, or we institute a system of checks and balances, where the Adelsraad/Landsraad checks the Kaiser. Unfortunately, such a system is dependent on the activity levels in those bodies, as well as its composition. Some citizens have a tendency to treat their checking role as some sort of a rubber stamp. Therefore, I think I'm more partial to plainly stating the powers and limitations in the constitution. We have a system of checks now, but the Adelsraad never even attempts to repeal decrees or depose the Kaiser. The majority requirements are pretty harsh too.
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

The rubber-stamp culture is the main problem with any proposed system. So, are we just talking about 'last resorts' or would anyone contemplate Imperial Decrees requiring countersignature of Praetor or Steward?
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Malliki »

We already have a check on the Kaiser since the Arbiter can veto any Imperial Decree that contradicts the Charter. I favor keeping that power, but perhaps we should move the appointment of the Arbiter from the Kaiser to the Landsraad? Otherwise, the Kaiser could just appoint a "rubber-stamper". Other than that, we need to state what the Kaiser cannot legislate about. One view here is that the Kaiser shouldn't be able to unilaterally make law regarding the duchies. Are there any more restrictions we wish to put on the Kaiser?
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Mira Raynora Major »

I'm in favour of putting the restrictions in a constitution/charter. A system of checks and balances is by definition, more complicated, with each "safeguard" adding another layer of bureaucracy and requiring safeguards of its own. The end result is a system that is all too often painfully slow when it isn't needed yet dormant when it is.

Personally, I think we can get rid of some of the positions and institutions we already have, the Adelsraad coming high up on my list of things we can well do without.

As regards the nature of the restrictions, personally I'm happy to allow the kaiser wide powers over issues that affect Shireroth as a whole, for example foreign policy and matters of collective interest, provided he otherwise leaves the duchies to manage their own affairs.
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Malliki »

Is the general consensus here that the Kaiser should be supreme honcho in most matters, and those he isn't supreme in, we put in the constitution? Like subdivisions.
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

I agree with that, yes. The question is where we limit him and how, and the role of those other organs.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Malliki »

In that case, we move on to the tiers.
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Monty »

I completely disagree with the Queen of Brookshire on getting rid of the Adelsraad.

My understanding of the constitutional make-up and sovereignty of the Imperial Republic, and I think the Queen of Brookshire would agree with me on this, is that whilst the Kaiser is the top of the tree, ultimately all sovereignty flows or should flow from the Duchies. The embodiment of this sovereignty resides in the meeting place of the Dukes, the Adelsraad. Now before she tells me how wrong I am in thinking this, let me explain. The Adelsraad is not the font of power, it is the Duchies. However a single Duchy cannot make a claim to the sovereignty to the entirety of Shireroth. It is the collection and collective nature of Duchies that sovereignty flows from.

So my suggestion is a form of Checks and Balances. Power is devolved from the Adelsraad to the other forms of Government. The Adelsraad should allow the Imperial Republic to enjoy a benevolent version of its power. The power to create, re-shape or destroy a Duchy should reside exclusively with the Adelsraad and safeguards should be built in for such as a super-majority and the approval of the Duke of the Duchy in question. I ultimately feel that any area of inter-duchy dispute should at first be attempted to be resolved in the confines of the Adelsraad if the responsible Dukes cannot come to agreement between themselves. In the event that this fails then the Arbiter should be called.

The Kaiser heads the Imperial Republic, he heads the Government and he reigns as such. Yet the Adelsraad retains the power to censure him and ultimately, with a super-majority, remove him from the office. However, Ministers of the Imperial Republic appointed by the Kaiser are not accountable to the Adelsraad but to the Kaiser. I still believe the Kaiser should retain the ultimate judicial decision in every area of law except Ducal disputes. This is not just for the Dukes guarding their power but also for the safeguard of the Imperial Republic and the Kaiser. If you draw a Kaiser into a dispute between Duchies, he then has to decide. Somebody has to win and somebody has to lose and the Kaiser should not be seen to favour one Duchy over another.

The Landsraad enjoys total legislative autonomy in every area of the Imperial Republic except internal Duchy developments. It essentially becomes a body responsible for national issues rather than issues which Duchies can deal with. Yet, the Adelsraad can equally censure the Landsraad for a position it takes. Ultimately, again with a super-majority, the Adelsraad can veto a piece of legislature. The Landsraad should also enjoy the power to appoint the Arbiter.

The Judex, as a body, should retain all its powers except where they conflict with my ideas above.
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Malliki »

I disagree with this position. Having power derive from the Duchies and not ultimately the Kaiser is a complete redefinition of the political organisation of the Republic. The problem with a system of checks and balances in a micronation is that it requires constant activity from all levels of government. As we all know, this cannot always be guaranteed. Therefore, in order to safeguard the system, the competencies of the different tiers and organs of state should be stated in the constitution. Amongst these competencies would be strong autonomy for the duchies.
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Monty »

Has not the Kaiser ruling always been subject to the ability of a noble to rebel? If we are this quasi-feudal society then the Kaiser rules by the consent of his most powerful subjects, the Dukes. The Adeslraad can at the moment, correct me if I'm wrong (and I probably am as I'm not as well versed in Shirerithian law), vote to censure the Kaiser and/or remove him? If it can only vote to remove him then surely it is a mockery that they cannot impose a lesser sanction?

It is not as drastic a redefinition of the political organisation of Shireroth as is thought at first glance. The proposals I bring are essentially more theoretically tying up loose ends and contradictions of our Charter. The Kaiser still retains almost all his competencies, except that the power he wields is no longer almost divinely granted by the Charter but instead comes from the Duchies consent. The constant need for activity is not required as there would be an assumption to the Duchies consent to the Kaiser's rule until they move against it in the Adelsraad. It is negative assent rather than positive assent.
Lord Montague

Balarak Alaiaon, Duke of Elwynn, Unifier of the Severed Duchy, Sequestrer of Disharmony

Also operating as Jean Carmichael, Duke of Evreaux, Speaker of the Imperial Assembly.
Oh and Eli Naveh too, Chief of the Ashkenatzan Naval Staff.

In Battle; Unbeatable. In Victory; Unbearable.

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Mira Raynora Major
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Re: Discussion 2: Form of Government

Post by Mira Raynora Major »

I would make a distinction between national sovereignty and local sovereignty. As the representative of the Imperial Republic as a whole, the Kaiser should possess the former whereas the various dukes/ducal regimes should possess the latter. I believe strongly that a division of power along these lines is the only plausible way to reconcile of Shireroth's traditions with present realities.
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Cedrist Demi-Goddess of Undead and Regional Autonomy

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