Microholic---and legal experts needed

A central forum for general discussion, especially micronational related stuff that doesn't go anywhere else.
Brandon
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:12 pm

Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Brandon »

I bought Microholic a month or so ago and planned on it being a wiki with less encyclopedic purposes and moreso just a content repository. But for fear of it evolving into YA micronational wiki, and because it has more features, I decided to have it be a social networking site for micronationalists primarily---with features enabled to make sure it can be the content repository of information that would not be found on MicroWiki. In particular I would like representatives of specific nations to make a group for them so there are no arguments later on at http://microholic.com/. It is built using elgg and on a less relevant, but still somewhat relevant note, I have also started a similar site for people in general who dislike "overzealous religiosity," which includes but is not limited to fundamentalism, blind faith, indoctrination. That is at http://ehtheist.com/. Microholic has more features though, because the scope of its purpose is wider.

I want to note that initially all of my projects, including some not mentioned, will be organized as a for-profit entity, but I indend to spin off Vandalize That into a non-profit and Microholic would be subordinate to that corporation, so it would also be non-profit eventually. The reason for that is so I can use the resources of VT to support micronationalism in general.

In addition, I want your legal advice (without creating a lawyer-client relationship :wink: ). The VT Copyright License at http://en.vandalizethat.com/doku.php?id=vt:copyright is an extremely restrictive copyleft-ish license intended to be an impenetrable anti-Wikia license. I want to know if any of you can spot any potential loopholes.

User avatar
Verion
Ayn Rand's toyboy
Posts: 6199
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Verion »

Aren't you taking this a bit too serious?
Also, I don't really like your pseudo-antitheist group, we all make our own choices in life, whether to believe in a God in a fundamentalist way or in a more easy way, or to don't believe in God. We should all have a little respect and not gather in groups to talk about how stupid believers are. Also, that being said, I don't see any activity yet so I can only assume that that is the way this website will work out, if it works out. Just like all the other atheist platforms.
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth

Brandon
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Brandon »

Jack,

Knowing you it is a moot point to debate you, but my issue with religious zeal arises partly from the fact that my mother claims that a disability I have isn't real, and I'm actually possessed by a demon. Beyond that, again, I don't have an issue with what you believe. What I do have an issue with is if you believe it by indoctrination and not by choice, and therefore will spread it to your children through indoctrination. That sort of thing gets us Congressional Chairs of Environmental Committees saying that we don't have to worry about global warming because the world will end when God says so (code for Armageddon). When your beliefs negatively impact the survival of my (theoretical) children, or perpetuate violence, hunger, or stigma, that's a problem. Beyond all that, this is not antitheism. It isn't even pretending to be.

But since I am a believer (in something) I will be just as harsh against overzealous atheists. My intention is... almost a community of hippies?

And actually, since all of these businesses (or nonprofits) represent an attempt to make something out of my life when statistics say I would be sitting in front of a television for the next sixty years with no family and few friends even if there were jobs available in general, I think I might not be taking this seriously enough. Anything further about this should be via PM.

User avatar
Verion
Ayn Rand's toyboy
Posts: 6199
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Verion »

Just a brief response -

Well, my beliefs have nothing to do with it, since I am an enlightened deïst, but I do think that you are generalizing and overstating here. The personal beliefs of people, how stupid we might find them (like your mother's which I personaly don't find believable since I do not believe in demons) do need to be respected. I understand that that is hard for you since you are in a difficult situation. But as long as people are not harming others they should be able to believe whatever they want and also teaching that to their children because it is my strong believe that it are the parents who are responsible for their children and should do what they think is the best for their children, they will probably be able to make their own choices later on, like you did, and like I did.

Also I think you are exaggerating with your CCEC argument, if people believe that the world will end when God wants it, doesn't that imply that we just let the world go. I think that even the most 'zealtoic' christians agree that we have our duties towards the earth and the next generation. And the Global Warming discussion is a different one here.
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth

Brandon
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Brandon »

My mother's actions towards me as a result of her belief that I am possessed is harming me.

As far as the environment:
http://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com ... l-warming/

User avatar
Verion
Ayn Rand's toyboy
Posts: 6199
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Verion »

You might be interested in this little chat I had with Octy, my point is that this politics aren't based on Christianity but that they use the Bible to sell their already existent beliefs.

19:34 Octy Jack: the Environmental Committee in the US Congress does have deciding members who believe that
19:34 Jack so? as long as they don't decide to help god a bit.
19:35 Octy well, their argument is that global warming is god's design, so why do anything to counteract it
19:35 Octy after all, the Tribulation is coming
19:35 Jack if they believe that, but meanwhile agree that we should take care of the environment, I still don't see the problem
19:36 Octy but they don't
19:36 Jack If they don't think that however, it is a problem, but not a religious one.
19:36 Octy the world was created for our exploitation, is their argument
19:37 Jack well, they are not religious fundamentalists then, because the bible states otherwise.
19:37 Jack they just are extreme capitalists, who only care about money.
19:37 Erasmus That seems like a good position
19:37 Erasmus I just don't like the "creation" part
19:38 Erasmus Why else is the world there if not for our exploitation?
19:38 Octy it's "convenient reading"
19:38 Octy in America, they call it the Prosperity Gospel
19:38 Jack so not fundamentalist reading.
19:38 Octy no
19:38 Octy it IS a fundamentalist reading
19:38 Octy The Prosperity Gospel interpretation
19:38 Erasmus Octy, what is the world for?
19:39 Jack no it isn't, because they don't use the bible as fundament, but as an argument.
19:39 Octy :|
19:39 Jack I think their fundation is probably the same as Erasmus'
19:39 Octy now you're just arguing what to label it
19:39 Jack no, it is a very important question.
19:40 Octy why?
19:40 Jack because they won't be religious fundamentalists if they only use the bible to fit in their own believes.
19:41 Jack the bible does clearly state that we have to take care of the earth, whatever you might think of the rest of the book
19:41 Octy if you take the term "fundamentalist" literally, I suppose
19:41 Jack I think Brandon is trying to discribe certain people on the political right, who also happen to believe in God.
19:42 Octy perhaps, but it's more than just that they believe in God
19:42 Octy they use God as an implement
19:42 Octy as a shield and as a cudgel
19:42 Erasmus Ardy: Oh in that case, I'm sure this is just a stage in his development into a proper atheist
19:42 Ardy Octy: God is an extension of their ego
19:42 Jack They do, which is not really a good christian thing to do.
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth

User avatar
Kaiser Aiomide
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:26 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Kaiser Aiomide »

As said in the conversation, you might not think that they're acting as "good christians", but to their own perspective, they are. Thank Prosperity and Dominion Theology.

Brandon
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Brandon »

I am not debating what they're doing as good Christians. That is an almost moot point since there is no consensus on what a Christian is. Many would say, including himself, that Pat Robertson is a good Christian. But when he says the earthquake in Haiti was God's wrath on it for making a deal with the Devil to defeat the French, he's being a bad person, regardless of whether or not he's being a good Christian.

I see the point, but I don't see people as to how they are in terms of religion, unless their religion causes harm to others, or would tend to do so.

User avatar
Verion
Ayn Rand's toyboy
Posts: 6199
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Verion »

I think it is easy, a good christian is the person who follows the Bible and the teachings of Jesus.

And Pat Robertson clearly didn't read Luke 13:1-5 well enough.

It is not neccesarily christianity that causes harm, is the human practicing it. But then again, there are worse things than christianity, like communism for instance. But it seems to be cool to critizise christianity nowadays.
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth

Brandon
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Brandon »

I know it is a bit fringe, but communists can have overzealous religiosity about communism as well.

I agree with you largely. The problem is when I ask myself what church claims to believe the entire Bible and does the best job following the whole thing, it would be Westboro. 98% of churches believe the entire thing is equally inerrant, from Genesis to Psalms to Song of Solomon to Revelation. To the extent that I am a Christian, I focus on the words attributed to Jesus himself, placing higher importance on things that are cited as having been heard by somebody outside of the clique.

User avatar
Kaiser Aiomide
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:26 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Kaiser Aiomide »

Frankly, that seems to be an oversimplification of the matter, Jack, since different groups will argue for different things using the same Bible and same teachings of Jesus.

Christianity is what people make it to be. It can be inspiration as well as justification. Like I said in the chat, it can be used as a shield and a cudgel by some people: a shield to argue that their policy positions are their religious beliefs and thus should be respected inherently, a cudgel to get others to appease them and make them fall into line, lest they be marked as "anti-Christian".

User avatar
Verion
Ayn Rand's toyboy
Posts: 6199
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Verion »

Of course I understand that people like the Westboro crazy people are not good for any nation and should not be taken seriously. But the problem I have with platforms like the one Brandon is trying to create is the fact that all the people who take the bible literally and who do not hate, or harm others, people like my parents, are being regarded as stupid and oldfashioned.

Also, it might sounds strange for an American, but in Europe, and especially in the Netherlands, religion is dying out. And this is not a good thing in my opinion.
Last edited by Verion on Wed Dec 07, 2016 8:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth

User avatar
Kaiser Aiomide
Posts: 723
Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:26 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Kaiser Aiomide »

That's because you exported your crazy to America :P

User avatar
Verion
Ayn Rand's toyboy
Posts: 6199
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Verion »

That's not fair, we practically exported everything to America ;)
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth

Brandon
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Brandon »

I don't regard people who believe in Biblical inerrancy as stupid and old-fashioned---I do, however, regard the belief itself as stupid (not exactly old-fashioned though). It's basically worse than believing the entirety of Wikipedia.

However, I am starting to second guess Ehtheist's purpose actually---what I intend is appropriate, but can I prevent it from becoming that sort of Good Ol' Boys Bible-Bashing club? Perhaps I can't. Facebook does that job well enough, perhaps that's one project I could rescind, which is good anyway since it lets me focus on fewer projects.

User avatar
Verion
Ayn Rand's toyboy
Posts: 6199
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:07 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Verion »

I have the same fears about this project as you have, and I would also like to add that there are numerous platforms of that already existing.
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth

Brandon
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Brandon »

On a completely unrelated note, I now have a domain name for sale!

User avatar
Harvey
Ghost of Christmas Past
Posts: 1780
Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 3:27 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Harvey »

Well the one selling it is possessed by a demon, so it probably is too.

Brandon
Posts: 65
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2011 1:12 pm

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Brandon »

Can a domain name be? Surely FOXNews.com might be, but barring that, better to make sure the demons don't take over the internet so all the more reason to buy it!

Kai Jackson

Re: Microholic---and legal experts needed

Post by Kai Jackson »



One million erb.

Post Reply

Return to “General Discussion”