That time Shireroth became a vulture's banquet...

[Kaiser Ayreon IV]

We're inactive, and been flatlined in activity for the past few months.

What's not working? Is anything working?

What should change? What shouldn't?

Time to kick the bucket?

Is there any energy left in us to get stuff going?

[Continuator]

In terms of narrative, and reflected in general activity, some kind of collapse is overdue. Perhaps the end of Shireroth as a world power and a retreat to Elwynn, Goldshire, and Brookshire to consolidate and reform. Kalgachia shows you don't need a vast empire and "activity" to have an enduring presence in the sector and "skin in the game".

[Rheni Chakam]

I don't think the current system of government, or the dragging of Shireroth's Overton window to the right in recent times, has helped very much if at all. This would likely be a good time for another Great Consolidation, including a more absolutist government structure and a return to Old Feudalism, similarly to what helped keep the country alive twelve years ago.

I almost wonder if an effort to explore a new world (Terra, perhaps? or whatever pokemon world Hoenn's mainland is on) might help, but sucha large undertaking could easily sink us as well…

(Also, in the name of the Hoennese Realm, I call dibs on Yardistan should the unthinkable happen. Remember that as wends Shireroth, so goes Micras.)

(Also also, reclaim Kildare.)

[Continuator]

The other option of course is to offer Ayreon IV as a human sacrifice to appease the gods. I might be tempted to rejoin under those circumstances.

[Continuator]

I don't think ... the dragging of Shireroth's Overton window to the right in recent times, has helped very much if at all. This would likely be a good time for ... a more absolutist government structure and a return to Old Feudalism, similarly to what helped keep the country alive twelve years ago.

Criticises rightism, advocates conservatism based on nostalgia for an idealised past. Curious.

[Rheni Chakam]

Criticises rightism, advocates conservatism based on nostalgia for an idealised past. Curious.

Based on inactivity-induced necessity.

[Continuator]

Criticises rightism, advocates conservatism based on nostalgia for an idealised past. Curious.

Based on inactivity-induced necessity.

You know what that system required in order to function? Activity. Continual, conflict and controversy driven, inane, activity. Reverting to Old Feudalism would be putting the cart before the horse (after decapitating the horse).

I'd say accept the verdict of history concerning forums - archive everything except for a representative office and focus exclusively upon the micraswiki and discord.

[Krasniy Yastreb]

Shireroth collectively decided years ago to prioritise fast-cycling adversarial spectacle over slow cooperative development, a configuration which cannot be reversed as the main practitioners of the latter element have long since lost confidence and moved on to better things (or out of Micras entirely). If Shireroth wants to survive in any meaningful way, I would suggest that it stop trying to be something that it was, no longer is and will never be again, and that it should play to its single remaining strength by leaning fully into the template of a failed state - the Republic of Inner Benacia provides a pretty decent example of what Shireroth can be going forward.

Naturally such an arrangement would be unmanageable over two-thirds of a continent so some territorial shrinkage would be necessary to bring Shireroth back to its traditional centre in the River Elwynn watershed; drawing a line between Spring Valley and Lichport and ditching everything west of it (excepting some of the more culturally-developed island possessions) would be a good start, then perhaps marking large swathes between the population centres of the remaining territory as disputed with the Green, as the RIB did with its fringes until recently. This would provide an accurate picture of Shireroth's last coherent social groups retreating to the ancient urban centres and scrapping perpetually over the remnants between (which is all Shireroth has done in recent years anyway).

Just my two Erb.

[Mahmood Sadri]

Oh it's this shit again. One of the things we could do to help things is not get our panties in a bunch as soon as no one posts for a while.

1. Kill the vast number of unnecessary forums. Keep the core. Focus on the wiki and Discord as has been previously said.
2. Shrink our territory to something similar to what Yastreb just said.
3. Three large subdivisions: Elwynn, Something and Something.
4. Kaiser rules, Landsraad advises. If we want to keep the Folks and Adels we need to motivate the work somehow.
5. Stop focusing on forum post count. I haven't posted much in Talenore, I do most work on the wiki. I am considering to just stop posting on the forum since it's just copypaste. The forum is for collaboration and I don't want to collaborate with anyone.

[Mahmood Sadri]

And what do you mean by "inactive"? I've been developing Talenore more than ever before, we have the pleasure cruise in the Skerries, and we have some other shenanigans. Please stop looking at posts on the forum, it's pointless nowadays. I'm not advocating killing it completely, but let's focus more on doing stuff than blowing up the post count. I could write some stuff about the judicial system now that the states are gone for example.

One problem I feel about Shireroth is that when I want to do anything, I have to consider a bajillion years of history first. I can't just do anything from scratch like now, I need to start 2000 years ago with a history, building up to now. That is probably mostly self-imposed, does anyone else feel that or is it just me?

[Mahmood Sadri]

For my first point, I present the following numbers: We have 22 top level forums. Under these, there are 64 subforums. I can't even be bothered researching the number of subsubforums.

[Continuator]

One problem I feel about Shireroth is that when I want to do anything, I have to consider a bajillion years of history first. I can't just do anything from scratch like now, I need to start 2000 years ago with a history, building up to now. That is probably mostly self-imposed, does anyone else feel that or is it just me?

I must admit that I tended to treat the history as being something interesting in the background to set fire to in order to add colour. This was particularly true of Modan since the history of Brookshire-Lichbrook-Malaboria was opaque at best. In that context it was convenient that two thirds of the population crumbled down to the point of becoming exportable bonemeal in the recent past, reduced the need to maintain any sense of continuity.

[Shyriath]

As someone who once had a dog in this fight, I may as well throw a handful of its excrement back in:

No one's a bigger fan of continuity than I am, but I have come to realize that slavish adherence to it works better when your setting is planned out in an organized fashion, which is rather manifestly the opposite of true for Shireroth. If what you're intending is to do something really new, then it's best to abandon it - either wholesale, or in a narratively more gentle fashion by consigning it all to the category of legends and myths (like Star Wars' expanded universe was after Disney took charge). Which option you want to take may depend in part on the existential question of what kind of direction you want to go in, and whether there's still any point in thinking of the place as Shireroth if you do.

Because, in all honesty, whatever comes next, if indeed something comes next, needs a rudder, even if it's a simple one. You need to have a vague idea of what it's going to try to be, and it has to be an idea that the participants are going to agree on, and buy into, sufficiently that even if they have somewhat different visions of what's going to happen, they're enriching the project rather than sabotaging each other to make it happen. Shireroth, I feel, has been deeply lacking in any such thing for a long time, which in various aspects and at various times contributed greatly to my willingness to leave.

Also, for those who were worried whether I was indeed still alive: hi, I'm still alive. Buried in things to one extent or another, but alive.

[Krasniy Yastreb]

for those who were worried whether I was indeed still alive: hi, I'm still alive. Buried in things to one extent or another, but alive.

Your recent creepings around the MicrasWiki have given me solace in these lonely times. Rest assured I'll keep a safe home for Prel, Chlorie and Toastypops until you surface fully again.

And I echo your sentiments, Shrubly as they are.

[Castrigo]

The other option of course is to offer Ayreon IV as a human sacrifice to appease the gods. I might be tempted to rejoin under those circumstances.

Same

[Shyriath]

Your recent creepings around the MicrasWiki have given me solace in these lonely times. Rest assured I'll keep a safe home for Prel, Chlorie and Toastypops until you surface fully again.

And I echo your sentiments, Shrubly as they are.

Thank you, on all counts.

[Continuator]

For reference:



I find myself inclining against allowing land to revert to the green - since that would just allow a certain Bassarid, who already likes to claim that society has converted en mass to his wacky religion for no reason other than Kalgachia dumping his economic system, to run rampant in the gaps in between. It might be easier for everyone if the parts Shireroth doesn't want, going forward, fell into the clutches of a couple of wiki-states in the mould of Kalgachia/Northbloom/Inner Benacia. Their mutual shenanigans could also then be choreographed to a certain extent.

[Krasniy Yastreb]

I find myself inclining against allowing land to revert to the green - since that would just allow a certain Bassarid, who already likes to claim that society has converted en mass to his wacky religion for no reason other than Kalgachia dumping his economic system, to run rampant in the gaps in between. It might be easier for everyone if the parts Shireroth doesn't want, going forward, fell into the clutches of a couple of wiki-states in the mould of Kalgachia/Northbloom/Inner Benacia. Their mutual shenanigans could also then be choreographed to a certain extent.

The risk had occurred to me, although the extent of any Kalgachi expansion would be restricted by the present motte-and-bailey protectorate system which was created to preserve the alpine character of the heartland and to limit expenditure and economic dependency upon militarily-vulnerable lowlands. For a state as stable as Kalgachia to revise this system, i.e. to undergo constitutional disruption for the sole purpose of warding off the spectre of Bassarid expansionism, would only be a victory for the latter and incentivise further provocations. Shireroth and the RIB have a lot less to lose at this point, however.

If it helps, a negotiated Kalgachi claim to the Minarborian cultural centres of Sansabury and &zeter (possibly including Stonetree/Bagegenisort and Novodolorsk) would be both practical and culturally justified; but anything north of the hard civilisational boundary at Fort Ermingander, or far enough south to meet the sea, would be out of the question in terms of narrative credibility lest it kick off a 'race to the bottom'...

[Hartmut Aldric]

For reference:



I find myself inclining against allowing land to revert to the green - since that would just allow a certain Bassarid, who already likes to claim that society has converted en mass to his wacky religion for no reason other than Kalgachia dumping his economic system, to run rampant in the gaps in between. It might be easier for everyone if the parts Shireroth doesn't want, going forward, fell into the clutches of a couple of wiki-states in the mould of Kalgachia/Northbloom/Inner Benacia. Their mutual shenanigans could also then be choreographed to a certain extent.

Just wanted to barge in quickly as a former participant to give a very, very strong endorsement and credence to this incisive statement.

I can speak from experience on this. I made the mistake of dissolving Caputia because I was bored with it and felt like the other participants were too. I felt I didn't have any more direction or creativity and honestly, I just did not want to put up with that certain neighbor anymore and the constant forced projection of his... *opens eyes widely in judgement upon reading the latest and breathes deeply* narratives. I was feeling like that across the board, and was (and still is really) down on Micras. Those being among many other reasons.

To be honest, I don't think I regret something more in my long involvement in Micras than having dissolved Caputia on feelings that turned out to be temporary and very fixable.

I strongly, strongly want to encourage Shirerithians to not pack it up because posting is not happening. I think there's just a general need to recalibrate the community around where it is basing its activity at the moment. If it's the wiki and the Discord, then so be it! If it means rearranging claims or reductions or separating parts into other independent wiki-based states, etc etc, then so be it! That's not a bad thing, as long as people are happy with the results.

Anyways, I'm cheering on the survival of this place, in whatever arrangement guarantees its survival in whichever form it decides to take and makes its participants happy.

Sorry in advance if me butting in is not appropriate. I feel like maybe half the people here hate me and the other half just tolerate me. (Joking!)

[Orion]

Eh, I've come to embrace the whole wiki-centric approach to things. It's a much more adaptable format and allows those of us with very busy schedules to pick away at things as time (and creativity) permit.

I've been meaning to do something with Mishalan and/or Raikoth for at least a year now, but keep finding my attention diverted to newer ideas. But also what continually prevents me from doing so is the limitations imposed (whether actual or imagined) by the dense hierarchy of Shireroth. I long ago stopped reading what goes on in the Landsraad. It's too damn complicated, especially when you're scarce on free time and just want to work on your particular slice of the pie.