Questions for the Oldies

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Primo de Aguilar
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Primo de Aguilar »

Very informative, thank you!

I guess my confusion re Shireroth's Euran territory arises from a reading of Imperial Decrees 700 and 777
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Continuator »

Kaiser Raynor XII believed that his closest companion was a shape-shifting dragon, we tend not to place too much credence in his pronouncements.

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Primo de Aguilar
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Primo de Aguilar »

Ah, wonderful! That explains everything, thank you! :)
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Verion
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Verion »

The Tarjeisson Trust wrote:Kaiser Raynor XII believed that his closest companion was a shape-shifting dragon, we tend not to place too much credence in his pronouncements.
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth

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Curt Kobain
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Curt Kobain »

‘Oldies’.
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ari
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by ari »

Let us tell you about the Feudal Holdings Act!
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Vilhelm Benkern
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

ari wrote:Let us tell you about the Feudal Holdings Act!
Please do, and insert the detail here: http://shireroth.org/shirewiki/History_of_Subdivisions
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Curt Kobain »

ari wrote:Let us tell you about the Feudal Holdings Act!
Dude, that's a deep cut.
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Curt Kobain
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Curt Kobain »

Vilhelm Benkern wrote:
ari wrote:Let us tell you about the Feudal Holdings Act!
Please do, and insert the detail here: http://shireroth.org/shirewiki/History_of_Subdivisions
Nah, too lazy. You can just read the thing yourself:
Feudal Holdings Act, Take 3
Written by: Gryphon the Pure
Passed: 8/27/03
1. There shall be three levels of Nobles beneath the Kaiser.
a) The first level of nobles beneath the Kaiser shall be known generically as Dukes. They shall rule over the major subdivisions of the nation, known generically as Duchies.
b) The second level of nobles is beneath both the Kaiser and their respective Dukes. They shall be known generically as Barons, and shall rule over the subdivisions of the Duchies, known generically as Baronies.
c) The third level of nobles is beneath the Kaiser, their respective Dukes, and also their respective Barons. They shall be known generically as Counts, and shall rule over the subdivisions of the Baronies, known generically as Counties.
d) Dukes, Barons, and Counts may choose to give themselves and their respective subdivisions titles other than the generically recognized ones. These titles should not be intentionally misleading, and are subject to evaluation by any noble above the offender in rank.

2. The process of forming and promoting subdivisions shall be as follows:
a) Each new County shall require one (1) citizen to be formed. The Counties may be formed from land within a Barony with the direct decree of the ruling Baron. The Landsraad and Kaiser retain veto rights. Counties shall be contained and operated within the forums of their respective Baronies.
b) Each new Barony shall require two (2) citizens to be formed. Baronies may be formed from the land within a Duchy with the direct decree of the ruling Duke. The Landsraad must be notified of the creation of the Barony. The Landsraad and the Kaiser retain veto rights. Baronies shall be contained and operated within their own forums, separate from their respective Duchies.
c) Each new Duchy shall require four (4) citizens to be formed. Duchies may be formed by order of the Kaiser or of the Landsraad. If a Duchy is formed by the order of the Landsraad, the Kaiser retains veto rights. If a Duchy is formed by order of the Kaiser, it must be as a public Imperial Decree. Duchies are contained and operated in their own forums.
d) The procedure for the promotion of a County to Barony or a Barony to Duchy shall follow the criteria and procedures for the creation of a new subdivision.

3. The procedure for appointing Nobles shall be as follows:
a) A Duke may be appointed by the Landsraad or the Kaiser.
b) A Baron may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, or the Duke of the ruling Duchy. The Landsraad must be notified.
c) A Count may be appointed by the Kaiser, the Landsraad, the Duke of the ruling Duchy, or the Baron of the ruling Barony. The ruling Baron must be notified.
d) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights. If the Kaiser appoints any noble, it must be as a public Imperial Decree.

4. The procedures for removing a Noble are as follows:
a) A Count may be removed by zir Baron, zir Duke, the Kaiser, or the Landsraad, with the ruling Baron being notified.
b) A Baron may be removed by zir Duke, the Kaiser, or the Landsraad, with the ruling Duke being notified.
c) A Duke may only be removed by the Landsraad or by Imperial Decree of the Kaiser. The Landsraad must attain a majority vote of greater than two thirds (2/3) to remove a Duke.
d) If any Noble loses zir citizenship, zie is removed from office.
e) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights. In order to prevent a person from being appointed to the same position of nobility again, the Kaiser must issue a formal Imperial Decree.

5. The procedure for dissolving subdivisions shall be as follows:
a) A County may be dissolved by decree of the ruling Baron.
b) A Barony may be dissolved by decree of the Kaiser, or a simple Landsraad majority.
c) A Duchy may be dissolved only by an overwhelming Landsraad majority of three quarters (3/4).
d) Dissolved subdivisions shall be put in their own separate archives, with all posting rights closed.
e) In all cases, the Kaiser retains veto rights.

6. Territories are considered autonomous regions of Shireroth. Each Territory may be granted a forum with its flag and a link to its own board. For all purposes, Territories are considered under the direct supervision of the Kaiser, who may choose to control them directly, or to appoint a governor. Citizens and Nobles of Territories are considered citizens of Shireroth, and nothing more.

7. Each Shirithian citizen may choose a specific place of residence for zirself. Zie may specify down to any level so far as city, but if the specification of city is not made, then zie shall officially reside in the capital city of the lowest subdivision specified. No Shirithian shall reside in more than one city at a time, and in order to change residences, a one day travel time from the time of relocation announced shall be observed. In accordance with this, no Shirithian may reside in more than one residence in a day.

8. No Shirithian shall rule over more than one subdivision with a single exception. In the event that a subdivision is without a ruling Noble, the ruling Noble of the subdivision above it shall take rule over the vacant subdivision. The citizens of the subdivision shall have one Shirithian week to decide upon a new ruling Noble, after which time, the subdivision goes under the direct control of the Kaiser until a new Noble is appointed.
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Soraya Octavius-Parini
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Soraya Octavius-Parini »

is this where the baron outranks a count thing comes from?

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Curt Kobain
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Re: Questions for the Oldies

Post by Curt Kobain »

Nah, counties originated a bit before this. The law records I have available to me right now (for some reason) show counties were established officially in August 2003 by a vote in the Landsraad:
Counties
Written by: UEC
Passed: 8/14/03

I need this passed for something I'm working on.

Here it is.

1. There shall officially be a subdivision known as a County.

2. Counties shall be a subdivision of a Barony, which shall remain a subdivision of a Duchy.

3. The ruler of a county shall be known as a Count/Countess.

4. Counts/Countess shall be considered Non-Ruling Nobles, but nobles none the less, and will get neither say nor vote within the Landsraad.

5. Counties will not get their own forum but will instead work out of the forum of the Barony they are in
The reason that counties are inferior to baronies in this system is that we were teenagers who did no real research on this and had no idea what we were talking about.

IIRC, before this things were a bit more informal. There were definitely people called Thanes (which I think James invented; referenced in the 2002 decrees below, both precursors to the FHA), and they were some sub-Duchy level noble (I think, in some instances, rules of more than one barony before the FHA banned the practice. But, in general, if you aren't a democracy, a good way to increase participation is to increase the number of titles.
Imperial Decree #22: Nobility rules in the Landsraad
Kaiseress Vivantia I 6/11/02

All ruling Nobles of the Land may voice their opinions within the Landsraad. Only Dukes may vote in the Landsraad.

Nobles consist of Citizens with the Noble titles of,
Kaiser (Kaiseress)
Duke (Duchess)
Baron (Baroness)
Thane

In some cases there appears to be two nobles from one area, such as the current case in the Barony of Schlangen. But in all cases only one of the nobles is the ruling noble. In the above case Baroness Sabriel is the "Ruling Noble", and the baron is just under her. It is the Baroness that would allowed to speak in the Landsraad and not the baron.
Imperial Decree #27: New Landsraad, New Rules
Kaiseress Vivantia I 6/13/02

The Landsraad is hereby reconvened.

The Landsraad is now open to all Ruling noble to vote in.

But to retain the status of the Dukes voting counts shall be altered.

A duke's vote is worth 1. So a Aye or Nay would be counted as 1 aye or Nay vote

Barons' and Thanes' will count for only 1/2 so a aye or nay vote will count a 1/2 a aye or nay vote.

2 votes by a thane or baron equals 1 vote from a duke.
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