Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Moderators: (Gralus) Gralan Emperor, (Gralus) Lord General, (Gralus) Chief Justice
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- Sea Elf, Sea Elf Run
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Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Dear Madam/Sir/Non-Gender Categorized Person:
I would hereby like to lodge a complaint with the Triumvirate over Bastion
administrator Jonas removing the Economics forum from Bastion. Economics
is an integral part of our particular sector of micronations. To have the Economics
forum removed has destroyed a main avenue for those who wish to contribute
to economics.
Jonas may not care. Others do care. On behalf of the mercantile class of Toketi and
the Gralan Empire, I beseech the Triumvirate to petition the Bastion administration
to reverse this unilateral decision by Jonas.
Signed,
Giles Melang
The Capitalists' Society of Bastion
I would hereby like to lodge a complaint with the Triumvirate over Bastion
administrator Jonas removing the Economics forum from Bastion. Economics
is an integral part of our particular sector of micronations. To have the Economics
forum removed has destroyed a main avenue for those who wish to contribute
to economics.
Jonas may not care. Others do care. On behalf of the mercantile class of Toketi and
the Gralan Empire, I beseech the Triumvirate to petition the Bastion administration
to reverse this unilateral decision by Jonas.
Signed,
Giles Melang
The Capitalists' Society of Bastion
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Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Actually, as that's an OOC matter, it's nothing to do with the triumvirate (citizens collectively decide OOC things). Personally, my views remain the same as here - if it were being used, having it would be nice, but since it wasn't really used ...
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave. But he does deserve a cool war ribbon.
However, this account still manages:
However, this account still manages:
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
I should start the 'Shoot Giles To Space Society' some day and spread the message... it would be so fun to end his terrible way of pushing on that 'enter'-button too early.
Important characters:
Frederik Alfons des Vinandy-Paravel, King of Batavia
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
I think that Jonas as a board administrator should remain neutral. Your dislike of Giles should not bias you.
1.Titus Morvayne, Prefect of Shirekeep, Count of the Skyla Islands
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth
2.Eki Aholibamah Verion, Queen in the North
3. Ludovic Verion, Lord of Blackstone and Governor-General of the Iron Company
4. Jeremy Harwinsson Archer, super sleuth
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
I would say the same to everyone, my dear Jack. Instead of complaining, he should better try to build up a company which deserves a forum.Jack wrote:I think that Jonas as a board administrator should remain neutral. Your dislike of Giles should not bias you.
Important characters:
Frederik Alfons des Vinandy-Paravel, King of Batavia
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
- Vilhelm Benkern
- Posts: 3833
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:08 am
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
I think it is better to optimistically leave the space open, create the infrastructutre, maintain the Phpbanks and international treaties in which a micronational economy might flourish, rather than close it all down and say "the economy might grow, but we won't help it or recognise it until it is firmly established."
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Then go to the nation you're in if you want an 'optimistic environment'. Nothing that stops anyone to go along with something like that and at least the front page of Bastion (still a hub of nations, now more clear with the MTO leaving) doesn't get a bunch of inactive subfora (next to the already inactive nations ).Vilhelm Benkern wrote:I think it is better to optimistically leave the space open, create the infrastructutre, maintain the Phpbanks and international treaties in which a micronational economy might flourish, rather than close it all down and say "the economy might grow, but we won't help it or recognise it until it is firmly established."
Important characters:
Frederik Alfons des Vinandy-Paravel, King of Batavia
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
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- Sea Elf, Sea Elf Run
- Posts: 2247
- Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:33 am
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Listen here you autocratic excuse for a statesman of Bastion, Commonwealth Global wasJonas wrote:I would say the same to everyone, my dear Jack. Instead of complaining, he should better try to build up a company which deserves a forum.
the most realistic simulation of a publicly held corporation with many shareholders
that ever graced these boards. (Einhorn-Silvermann-Bochs and VBNC were largely
privately held, a slightly different concept.) There were stockholders, and elected
Board of Directors, offices in various nations. Yet, you remove its subforum and then
grant a top level forum to a very upstart company with no business plan, no organizational
structure, and functionaries to an individual named Thomas Rivers, who shortly thereafter
requests his forum be dismantled!
You archive Commonwealth Global and the Economics forum used by many other companiesThomas Rivers, Esq., Lords Proprietor, The Free Continental Company wrote:Screw it. There's not enough people here to sustain the existing nations, let alone a new project. Archive the FCC until further notice.
and then you turn around and grant that guy a forum? Obviously there was very little planning
or effort put in the enterprise espoused by Mr Rivers. Again, no business plan, no organizational
structure, and no functionaries. Essentially, you give the economic equivalent of a one-man micronation
a top level forum on Bastion. It is absurd.
Shireroth should hurry and pass the Bastion Readministration Plan that gives Shireroth administrative
power over Bastion in composition with multiple accountable individuals because there is too way much power
being held by one individual at this time.
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
I always love your flattering way of saying things, Giles.
Concerning Rivers: I gave, indeed, a nation - which it was in my eyes - (with a company-structured government) a subforum.
Then you should not have any problem opening such an office in one of those nations. That you can't even get a forum in a nation says enough. Instead of complaining you could put your energy in lobbying in a nation for such a subforum. If you're afraid of the company's 'neutrality': when on Bastion it's also part of a part of this certain micronational community, making that neutrality invalid (and even more when Shireroth would have control over the administration ).There were stockholders, and elected
Board of Directors, offices in various nations.
Concerning Rivers: I gave, indeed, a nation - which it was in my eyes - (with a company-structured government) a subforum.
Important characters:
Frederik Alfons des Vinandy-Paravel, King of Batavia
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
The FCC was going to be a precursor to a nation, akin to how the 13 colonies of America were individual companies, who formed colonies, and in turn established the United States. I had a very in-depth plan on paper with detailed goals and objectives. That I didn't post this is none of your business. As Bastion is intended to host nations, young and old, I asked to have a forum created in which to pursue this experiment/project. I later decided it would be more helpful of me, to the community as a whole, to dedicate my efforts to the existing nations. You confuse the FCC with being an economic project, when it was actually a nation-building project.
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- Sea Elf, Sea Elf Run
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Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
No, I knew what the FCC was. I am familiar with the companies chartered for,You confuse the FCC with being an economic project, when it was actually a nation-building project.
the development of colonies on Earth, for example, the London Company. I will not
argue that they had state like qualities. Nor will I argue that many a historian might view
them as having been the "law of the land" in such colonial areas where they held patent.
However they did have shareholders, directors, and were organized on the basis of profit,
and they had a charter.
In short, the The Free Continental Company Co. was a company still. Also, upon closer inspection,
I determined that in fact Commonwealth Global would have competed with The Free Continental Company
Co. on a variety of fronts, such as in the shipping industry, due to its fleet of ships which would have
sailed around Micras under the Free Continental Company flag. Thus, for that reason too it was not fair for it
to have a top level forum when Commonwealth Global's subforum was removed and archived.
It has been said "Well just get a subforum on an individual nation's forum if the Economics forum
is gone on Bastion." Well, this has been tried. However Shireroth would not even create a subforum for
CWG, the largest company in Shirekeep.
The excuse of the Shirerithian trade minister there was that CWG was 'not large enough,' and
thereforewas only qualified to be able to post sticky threads pertaining to company business
in the trade ministry forum. Well, that indicates that there is a problem with the Shirerithian
trade ministry's appraisal process, because CWG was by all accounts the largest company based
in Shireroth. By the standard of their trade minister, if CWG was not large enough to get a
subforum there, nobody can! Therefore, the Economics forum on Bastion should not have
been removed, to prevent such situations as this one.
The Capitalists' Society hereby adds the following policy plank:
- To support a set of standards implemented for appraising the value of objects in
micronational economics that is consistent across a variety of nations,
akin to how certain aspects of rec-warring have been standardized; this may
be accomplished by extension to the existing SCUE treaty system or by way
of new treaties and organizations.
This is in addition to the previously mentioned planks:
- To support restoration of a top level forum for Economics on Bastion.
- To support the passage of the Bastion Readministration Plan in Shireroth
to democratize control over the Bastion forums, including the Economics forum.
- Lyssansa Rossheim
- Posts: 691
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:02 pm
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
I thought CWG had been dissolved?
CWG may have been the largest company in Micras, but it didn't actually seem to do all that much besides hand out shares and try to play the part of a great multinational in a world where governments aren't hostage to big business. Now if you want to go back to basics and found a company that will actually do something productive, then I'll help you. I'll even build a floating artificial island where you can base your company- tax free- on the solemn understanding that you stick to economics and don't cause political trouble.
Perhaps then we'll see whether you can walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
Given that far more time has been spent arguing about rules systems than actually recwarring, I'm not certain I'd agree with that assertion.Thadeus Melanje II wrote: To support a set of standards implemented for appraising the value of objects in
micronational economics that is consistent across a variety of nations,
akin to how certain aspects of rec-warring have been standardized
I wouldn't say that the Bastion Readministration Plan is about democratizing the forum...and besides, even if it is passed in Shireroth, that doesn't necessarily mean anything will happen given that Shireroth has no authority over other Bastion countries.Thadeus Melanje II wrote:To support the passage of the Bastion Readministration Plan in Shireroth
to democratize control over the Bastion forums, including the Economics forum.
If you had asked me for a forum back when I was Kaiseress, I would probably have given you one; but instead you thrust a rather length laundry-list of legal demands in my face and then repeatedly ignored my advice. How many times did I point out that, under the new charter, the Kaiser doesn't have the authority to grant everything you were asking? Quite a few times, I seem to recall.Thadeus Melanje II wrote:It has been said "Well just get a subforum on an individual nation's forum if the Economics forum
is gone on Bastion." Well, this has been tried. However Shireroth would not even create a subforum for
CWG, the largest company in Shirekeep.
CWG may have been the largest company in Micras, but it didn't actually seem to do all that much besides hand out shares and try to play the part of a great multinational in a world where governments aren't hostage to big business. Now if you want to go back to basics and found a company that will actually do something productive, then I'll help you. I'll even build a floating artificial island where you can base your company- tax free- on the solemn understanding that you stick to economics and don't cause political trouble.
Perhaps then we'll see whether you can walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
Lyssansa
Queen of Minarboria
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Princess and Lichgravine of Lywind, Baroness of Solecism
Queen of Minarboria
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Princess and Lichgravine of Lywind, Baroness of Solecism
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- Sea Elf, Sea Elf Run
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Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Duchess von Rossheim, greetings. Firstly, yes, CWG has been dissolved. Now, on to your comments.
Bastion Readministration Plan is passed. Rather than one individual
controlling everything, a nation with a long tradition of democracy would
be entrusted with the responsibility of acting as a fair and impartial
caretaker. Shireroth would have no authority over the Bastion countries.
The goal of the Bastion Readministration Plan is to provide for the mundane
administration of the national forums hosted on Bastion, as well as the
international forums and spaces, such as the Economics forum.
Duchess, with regards to your other comments about when you were
Kaiser, and about how CWG could have or should have, in your opinion,
done things differently in order to obtain favor with your Kaisership, as well
as how I should proceed if I want to gain your assistance in some way in
starting a new company, I think the main thing worth considering is your
past stated opposition to the concept of micronational economics. Basically,
in the past, you once stated that essentially you do not believe in micronational
economics and did not want it to be implemented. This is a matter of public
record.
Unless this belief has changed, it would be my advice then my advice, to the
members and supporters of the Capitalists' Society, that your promises of "a
floating artificial island where you can base your company- tax free" to any
company I should create or a company that anyone else creates should be taken
with a grain of salt. On the other hand, if you have genuinely changed your mind,
well perhaps we can help each other out. Ideally, a micronational stock exchange
would be tax-exempt and be located on a neutral, international space, so as to
minimize political interference and give its employees diplomatic immunity.
Perhaps this could be located on that donated island of yours? I perceive in you
a distaste for 'big business.' Well, a stock exchange on a neutral space, such
as the one I describe, would be run by an international governing body, and not a private
entity or one controlled by industry. That would leave no chance for 'big business'
as you see it to dominate the functioning of the exchange.
The Capitalists' Society also commends, due to our general policy of supporting
tax reduction throughout Micras, the decision that the Kingdom of Leichenburg
made in Royal Decree No. 50 to grant a generous 100% tax exemption to subjects
living in Essen and Hermanburg.
The forums would be much more democratic than they currently are if theDuchess von Rossheim wrote:I wouldn't say that the Bastion Readministration Plan is about democratizing the forum...and besides, even if it is passed in Shireroth, that doesn't necessarily mean anything will happen given that Shireroth has no authority over other Bastion countries.
Bastion Readministration Plan is passed. Rather than one individual
controlling everything, a nation with a long tradition of democracy would
be entrusted with the responsibility of acting as a fair and impartial
caretaker. Shireroth would have no authority over the Bastion countries.
The goal of the Bastion Readministration Plan is to provide for the mundane
administration of the national forums hosted on Bastion, as well as the
international forums and spaces, such as the Economics forum.
Duchess, with regards to your other comments about when you were
Kaiser, and about how CWG could have or should have, in your opinion,
done things differently in order to obtain favor with your Kaisership, as well
as how I should proceed if I want to gain your assistance in some way in
starting a new company, I think the main thing worth considering is your
past stated opposition to the concept of micronational economics. Basically,
in the past, you once stated that essentially you do not believe in micronational
economics and did not want it to be implemented. This is a matter of public
record.
Unless this belief has changed, it would be my advice then my advice, to the
members and supporters of the Capitalists' Society, that your promises of "a
floating artificial island where you can base your company- tax free" to any
company I should create or a company that anyone else creates should be taken
with a grain of salt. On the other hand, if you have genuinely changed your mind,
well perhaps we can help each other out. Ideally, a micronational stock exchange
would be tax-exempt and be located on a neutral, international space, so as to
minimize political interference and give its employees diplomatic immunity.
Perhaps this could be located on that donated island of yours? I perceive in you
a distaste for 'big business.' Well, a stock exchange on a neutral space, such
as the one I describe, would be run by an international governing body, and not a private
entity or one controlled by industry. That would leave no chance for 'big business'
as you see it to dominate the functioning of the exchange.
The Capitalists' Society also commends, due to our general policy of supporting
tax reduction throughout Micras, the decision that the Kingdom of Leichenburg
made in Royal Decree No. 50 to grant a generous 100% tax exemption to subjects
living in Essen and Hermanburg.
- Kaiser Aiomide
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:26 pm
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Thadeus Melanje II wrote:Rather than one individual
controlling everything, a nation with a long tradition of democracy would be entrusted with the responsibility of acting as a fair and impartial caretaker.
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- Sea Elf, Sea Elf Run
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Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Leave it up to Shireroth's own Kaiser to ruin my attempt at painting Shireroth's
government in the most benevolent and harmless light!
It is the Landsraad, their venerable democratic legislative body, that I was chiefly
referring to when I stated that Shireroth is nation with a long tradition of democracy.
However it is also in Shirerithian tradition that the Kaiser has ultimate power and
can behave as democratically or undemocratically as zir sees fit, let them eat cake,
off with their heads, etc. Still, Shireroth remains as of right now a better option for the
administration of Bastion for a variety of reasons, historical and otherwise. (Though
this can, as many things can, change.)
government in the most benevolent and harmless light!
It is the Landsraad, their venerable democratic legislative body, that I was chiefly
referring to when I stated that Shireroth is nation with a long tradition of democracy.
However it is also in Shirerithian tradition that the Kaiser has ultimate power and
can behave as democratically or undemocratically as zir sees fit, let them eat cake,
off with their heads, etc. Still, Shireroth remains as of right now a better option for the
administration of Bastion for a variety of reasons, historical and otherwise. (Though
this can, as many things can, change.)
-
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- Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 11:40 pm
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
It's interesting to see the discussion this has generated.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave. But he does deserve a cool war ribbon.
However, this account still manages:
However, this account still manages:
- Kaiser Aiomide
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:26 pm
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Thadeus Melanje is nothing if not mesmerizing.
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
Excellent, while you send ridiculous advices into the world, you could ask them for a forum.The Capitalists' Society also commends, due to our general policy of supporting
tax reduction throughout Micras, the decision that the Kingdom of Leichenburg
made in Royal Decree No. 50 to grant a generous 100% tax exemption to subjects
living in Essen and Hermanburg.
Important characters:
Frederik Alfons des Vinandy-Paravel, King of Batavia
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
Joseph Bartholomeus des Vinandy-Windsor, Prince-Regent of Batavia
Jin San, Diwang of Jingdao, Duke of Kildare
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
^ Fixed that typo for you.Kaiser Aiomide wrote:Thadeus Melanje is nothing if notmesmerizingmoronizing.
- Kaiser Aiomide
- Posts: 723
- Joined: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:26 pm
Re: Removal of the Economics forum from Bastion
I never said the mesmerism was because of anything redeeming. The David Silverman face is a common reaction for me, where I just don't even.