Valencia to Bastion

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Zand Gozar
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Valencia to Bastion

Post by Zand Gozar »

The following is being said as Niccolò Garibaldi, Lord Chamberlain of Valencia and First Duke Garibaldi

His Royal Majesty and I have spoken and he has come to the decision that Valencia's longevity would best be served by our joining the Bastion Union. As such, we'd like our forums replicated as they are here. We will need the groups of The Monarch, Privy Council, Great Officers of State, Ministers and Citizens.

Note that the Privy Council should be made private and visible only to the Privy Council group. A style will be sorted out soon as I believe Matt Kovac and His Majesty have spoken in regards to the creation of a Valencian forum style. Also, to clean up the boards, perhaps something could be done about the 3 inactive nations on here? Doesn't need to be arbitrary or anything but there haven't been posts in Gralus, Nelaga or Archipelago in over a month and if their creators don't object (or don't respond), for the aesthetics of the top-level forum, perhaps they could be archived in 2 weeks (to give them time to respond).
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ari
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by ari »

*boing*

Okay, who are these guys?
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Monty »

It should be noted that the self proclaimed King of Valencia has pretty much declared he will be very near absent for a while. You may be taking onboard a dead nation if it weren't for Nick.
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Zand Gozar
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Zand Gozar »

Well he says he's rather ill, to use his words the kind where it doesn't generate spare time (i.e. not an ordinary cold or anything). As for who "these guys" are, Valencia is a micronation (obviously), specifically the ones attempting to regain it's territory (of the same name) from Alexandria. Other than that, you're going to have to be a little more specific in your questions as to what you wish to know :P.
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Monty »

A micronation whose original Valencian members don't seem to have been around for a while and is mainly supported by Nick, and god forbid, Kovac....one of whom has a deep seated hatred of Alexandria so is it any wonder he has an interest in supporting Valencia beyond as a way of attempting to destabilise Alexandria, which he has a history of...

http://empireofthealexandrians.org/comm ... p?tid=1422
Lord Montague

Balarak Alaiaon, Duke of Elwynn, Unifier of the Severed Duchy, Sequestrer of Disharmony

Also operating as Jean Carmichael, Duke of Evreaux, Speaker of the Imperial Assembly.
Oh and Eli Naveh too, Chief of the Ashkenatzan Naval Staff.

In Battle; Unbeatable. In Victory; Unbearable.

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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Zand Gozar »

Yes Monty, we know that it isn't doing *that* great, which is why we're considering Bastion in the first place - to shift ourselves into the mainstream. As it stands, we're just a random ProBoards nation and we'd like to be closer to the large hub of activity and our allies.
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Monty »

But what is the raison d'être of Valencia now then? Edouard as Duke of Trevoux had an understandable reason to come back and seek 'Valencian' territory. That is something we were discussing with him, as I am sure you know from the reports he gave back to the Privy Council. Will you continue them with an appointed Rep of Alexandria? Or will you continue to pose problems for the reconciliation? Lets not beat around the bush, you're not as keen on a deal as we are and I'm dubious about the involvement of Matt Kovac in the country for any other reason than to act as agent provocateur for his own agenda (which he sees as Raspur's collective will)
Lord Montague

Balarak Alaiaon, Duke of Elwynn, Unifier of the Severed Duchy, Sequestrer of Disharmony

Also operating as Jean Carmichael, Duke of Evreaux, Speaker of the Imperial Assembly.
Oh and Eli Naveh too, Chief of the Ashkenatzan Naval Staff.

In Battle; Unbeatable. In Victory; Unbearable.

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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Zand Gozar »

Yeah I kind of knew your impartiality would be non-existent and you would turn this into a cluster. As for this, you're being absurd and lumping me in with Kovac:
Will you continue them with an appointed Rep of Alexandria? Or will you continue to pose problems for the reconciliation? Lets not beat around the bush, you're not as keen on a deal as we are and I'm dubious about the involvement of Matt Kovac in the country for any other reason than to act as agent provocateur for his own agenda (which he sees as Raspur's collective will)
I was actually the one who proposed to His Majesty that we claim different land altogether, should Alexandria not wish to play ball. I've not caused you any problems and have actually been working to shift our primary focus from wrestling with Alexandria to internal focuses like getting a legislature up, properly organizing an OrBat and so on. As for a deal whereby we become a constituency of Alexandria, no, I wasn't keen on that at all.

Our reason for being isn't to undermine Alexandria, this isn't some mass conspiracy for the sole purpose of causing aches and pains to you and yours - you are officially being rediculous. So whatever bush you're beating around, do be careful, I don't know who's in it and they may not be so willing to reason with you and elaborate to you as I am :P. I don't know who you've been speaking with but I have no idea what "problems" I've posed.

Now, if at all possible, can we not bring the Alexandria versus Valencia politics into this thread and discuss the actual topic: Valencia joining Bastion?
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Monty »

So it wasn't you who informed the Duke of Trevoux that we would sideline him because of your presence (along with other Raspur Pact members) in Valencia?
Lord Montague

Balarak Alaiaon, Duke of Elwynn, Unifier of the Severed Duchy, Sequestrer of Disharmony

Also operating as Jean Carmichael, Duke of Evreaux, Speaker of the Imperial Assembly.
Oh and Eli Naveh too, Chief of the Ashkenatzan Naval Staff.

In Battle; Unbeatable. In Victory; Unbearable.

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Zand Gozar
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Zand Gozar »

What?

Maybe MATT said that. I am NOT Matt. Again, you're lumping me in with Matt. I've NEVER said any such thing to him. In fact I don't even recall discussing anything involving the Raspur Pact, it's members or related content with him - ever. I think Matt's been planting seeds and you're so quick to troll and berate him or anything associated with him that you've come to this discussion with half-facts and "information" that have trickled down from him. I can honestly say that you've been GROSSLY misinformed as to what part I've played in Valencia. I've never discussed my involvement in Raspur Pact with the King of Valencia.
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Monty »

In negotiations with the Duke of Trevoux he has stated that his citizens believe that if Valencia were to join the Empire as a Dominion under the terms of a broad set of terms, which included a permanent Valencian representative in the Imperial Cabinet, that we would sideline him in the Imperial Cabinet. That would not happen. Valencia would have full access and a full part to play in Cabinet decision making.

If that is Matt, I apologise. I did not think he would have access to the Privy Council or the Duke's ear without a noble title. My information comes from the Duke of Trevoux though. The broad terms of a settlement are before the Valencian Government. If you wish I can attempt to draw up a Treaty for the consideration of the Valencian Government encapsulating the terms of any settlement?
Lord Montague

Balarak Alaiaon, Duke of Elwynn, Unifier of the Severed Duchy, Sequestrer of Disharmony

Also operating as Jean Carmichael, Duke of Evreaux, Speaker of the Imperial Assembly.
Oh and Eli Naveh too, Chief of the Ashkenatzan Naval Staff.

In Battle; Unbeatable. In Victory; Unbearable.

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Zand Gozar
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Zand Gozar »

Monty wrote:In negotiations with the Duke of Trevoux he has stated that his citizens believe that if Valencia were to join the Empire as a Dominion under the terms of a broad set of terms, which included a permanent Valencian representative in the Imperial Cabinet, that we would sideline him in the Imperial Cabinet. That would not happen. Valencia would have full access and a full part to play in Cabinet decision making.

If that is Matt, I apologise. I did not think he would have access to the Privy Council or the Duke's ear without a noble title. My information comes from the Duke of Trevoux though. The broad terms of a settlement are before the Valencian Government. If you wish I can attempt to draw up a Treaty for the consideration of the Valencian Government encapsulating the terms of any settlement?
It is Matt, as I've never discussed anything involving the Raspur Pact - ever. I think you've been sipping too much of Aster's punch ;).

And for the second time, this is about Valencia joining Bastion, not an Alexandrian minister probing one of the Valencian Great Officers of State. My opinion is that if Alexandria doesn't give us the land, we should just claim elsewhere on Micras. I am perhaps a minority in that opinion and obviously HRM is representing the opinion of the majority in Valencia. If that doesn't answer your question, I'm sorry, but this isn't the time and place to have this discussion as this isn't in Alexandria and Alexandria isn't a member of Bastion (and therefor has no say in this discussion).
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Monty »

Oh don't play that card on me, you're better than that!

If I was to suddenly set up a site and say, restart the Babkhan Blackfriars or claim to be the rightful heir to the neutral Normark, you wouldn't be dubious about my intentions? I would cite the fact I could start up old West Ocia again but then, in all honesty, you would have good cause to be dubious. We have Babkha claiming Luthoria and the Trevoux claiming Valencia. Forgive us for feeling a little "wtf?" about having random nations claim land that's ours.
Lord Montague

Balarak Alaiaon, Duke of Elwynn, Unifier of the Severed Duchy, Sequestrer of Disharmony

Also operating as Jean Carmichael, Duke of Evreaux, Speaker of the Imperial Assembly.
Oh and Eli Naveh too, Chief of the Ashkenatzan Naval Staff.

In Battle; Unbeatable. In Victory; Unbearable.

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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Zand Gozar »

Monty wrote:Oh don't play that card on me, you're better than that!

If I was to suddenly set up a site and say, restart the Babkhan Blackfriars or claim to be the rightful heir to the neutral Normark, you wouldn't be dubious about my intentions? I would cite the fact I could start up old West Ocia again but then, in all honesty, you would have good cause to be dubious. We have Babkha claiming Luthoria and the Trevoux claiming Valencia. Forgive us for feeling a little "wtf?" about having random nations claim land that's ours.

I can understand the "dubiousness", but it really is a coincidence. There really is no actual coordination that links the two efforts, at all. I'm taking Justin (aka Duke of Trevoux/HRM King of Valenia) at face value as the originator of Valencia before and during Victoria. Because Alexandria absorbed that part of Victoria, I don't think it's too far fetched to imagine that if he wanted to continue it, he'd be contending for the land with Alexandria. It sucks, I know, but them's the breaks! So, despite what Matt likes to tout, the Raspur Pact isn't behind this. Now, for obvious reasons, Babkha voices it's support of the Valencian cause, but that's all part of that damned Cold War thing. My best advice to you is to ask the credible sources, not whatever ridiculous blabbering Kovac happens to post. Ardy, Ric/Elijah and myself are the credible resources for Raspur Pact goings-on, Kovac should never, ever EVER be considered a reliable source for anything regarding the Raspur Pact, member or no.

He came back, he wants the land that Valencia before and under Victoria had - it should be taken as a purely Valencian cause, not as some massive conspiracy.

As far as Kovac goes - I've repeatedly told Ardy that I severely dislike him being considered an equal of any kind in the Pact and that dealings with him will eventually cause us grief with our micronational acquaintances. Kovac is attributing the Valencian cause's thunder to the Raspur Pact, which is unendingly false. The dude is Bizarro Goebels, in so far that his propaganda ruins his allies - Oh well, I warned people!

And for "that card" - it is hard to want to play the game when one knows the outcome with a high degree of certainty. We'll play the political game of ring-around-the-rosie but in the end Alexandria will hold it's ground and give us the ultimatum of become a constituency or go away. Rather than waste time with that, we could just take the second option and be on our very merry way.
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Monty »

Before I killed the character off, Carmichael was actually going to run on a platform of giving back those lands to Valencia ;) Valencia is already a constituency what Alexandria was going to offer would have been Dominion status like Australia between 1900-1941 or Canada in the same period. Whether it does is beyond me now as Dev and I have removed ourselves from the decision making process (macronational commitments suck).

Thanks for the explanation. Tbh, when the back channels of diplomacy are required I do go to Ardy or Ric on this sort of thing as you know (I think you were there when we had a keep-in-touch conversation?).
Lord Montague

Balarak Alaiaon, Duke of Elwynn, Unifier of the Severed Duchy, Sequestrer of Disharmony

Also operating as Jean Carmichael, Duke of Evreaux, Speaker of the Imperial Assembly.
Oh and Eli Naveh too, Chief of the Ashkenatzan Naval Staff.

In Battle; Unbeatable. In Victory; Unbearable.

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Zand Gozar
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Zand Gozar »

Well we'll see. I've exchanged e-mails with Justin and it isn't looking promising. In the end it's his decision to do this and if he just disappears (again), this will be all for naught. I'm getting the classic "I don't know right now" from him due to macronational commitments.

(It should be noted that I made the original request at his request)
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Emir of Raspur »

Well Zand and Matt have different interpretations of what the Raspur Pact means in relation to a non-member like Valencia but what should be pointed out is that the Raspur Pact itself does not have a foreign policy except beyond the quite specific confines of mutual defence and collective security. Unless all members have met and agreed upon a course of action it will remain the case that individual parties do not enjoy a mandate to speak for the collective.

I find Matt's commentaries and publications quite amusing in the context of cold war banter. If other people would learn to do so as well the situation would be considerably less fraught than this thread might otherwise suggest. The thing to remember is that Matt/Ocia's advocation of the Raspur Pact (or a particular interpretation of it) is not the same as Matt speaking for the Raspur Pact which he cannot do unless a policy has been agreed and set. It might not seem particularly funny in this instance but the other side has Aster so honours remain broadly even.

The main issue issue is that the 'Raspur Pact' is not driving Valencia to join the Bastion forums, since at least fully half of its membership is firmly uncommitted to the Protocols another non-member would effectively dilute its representation at the non-existent top level (which is the Situation Room and the totality of Ari's disinterested control is such that he is effectively above local politics...).

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Zand Gozar
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Zand Gozar »

It seems Justin/Duke of Trevoux/Mulgarian Emperor has largely abandon Valencia in favor of his latest (and probably just as ill-fated) project - The Mulgarian Empire. As such I retract this application. Last time I join a Justin-nation.
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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Emir of Raspur »

Shame. I'm keeping the coffee plantation he granted me though...

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Re: Valencia to Bastion

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Zand Gozar wrote: Also, to clean up the boards, perhaps something could be done about the 3 inactive nations on here? Doesn't need to be arbitrary or anything but there haven't been posts in Gralus, Nelaga or Archipelago in over a month and if their creators don't object (or don't respond), for the aesthetics of the top-level forum, perhaps they could be archived in 2 weeks (to give them time to respond).
Since Nelaga and Gralus did secretly develop time travel based on Micron designs, it's no surprise that we're two weeks ahead of you. I object to archiving any of those three forums, but don't mind rearranging the order. Nobody else seemed to like our suggestion though.
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