Microwiki thread: Application

[Octavius]

Was it bullying or just mean words?

[Harvey]

So you're teaching kids that there's a double standard, then. Great.

At least they learn early

[Gerk]

I don't know what you think the definition of bullying is, but using mean words to a person is bullying.
The responsibility falls both on the parents and teachers. The parents moreso teach their children to respect authority, and teachers moreso teach children to be respectful in social situations, though the roles overlap.

[Octavius]

No. Bullying is when you use intimidation and force in order to assert dominance over someone. It's a form of abuse. It's the way you use your words, not the words themselves. Hell, the words can be the nicest, most polite words on paper, but if they're used that way, it's still bullying. I'm actually trained to spot and deal with abuse. Bad words on their own are not abuse.

[Scott Alexander]

I would agree. I don't think anyone is upset about use of swear words here. It's about using words to put down other people and create a hostile environment, whether they're four letters or not.

[Octavius]

See, that's the thing. I'm not seeing how these words are being used to create a hostile environment. All I'm seeing is an attempt to regulate words, which is creating the hostile environment as people fight for their freedom of speech.

[Scott Alexander]

You don't think it's a hostile environment that people from Microwiki come here and find themselves being called "trash" and "retards" for disagreeing with us?

And please, don't use the "freedom of speech" defense (see: link from not my own blog, number 8). Just because people have a legal right to say something doesn't mean no one is allowed to inform them that what they're saying is hurtful. I don't think anyone's even suggested government intervention yet; heck, we don't even have a government that could intervene.

[Gerk]

I'm not trying to regulate words, I'm trying to put an end to the personal attacks. That's all I want.

In response to the bullying, that's sorta what I meant, though I admittedly did not say it so specifically. That discussion should end, though, as it's off-topic, and I've been wasting too much time on it.

[Malliki]

Well, apparently we don't have freedom of speech here, because the ****** ******* that are the *************** leaders here don't like it. Well, I say **** my ****.

[Censored by SAVAK to protect sensitive eyes]

[Gerk]

Gralus has a constitutional clause on freedom of speech. Of course, the Gralan Constitution is entirely in-context and has no bearing on discussions like this one.

[Harvey]

Not the least of all reasons because this is a common area forum where specific national laws don't apply.

[Octavius]

Scott, you try the "oh, he said the magic word. That means he automatically loses the argument" argument, but that is how it is. Yes, I agree, the statements that you're referring to should be avoided. They don't add anything to the discussion. On the other hand, if somebody from Microwiki came here and saw that, he should probably try to find out why somebody would say that, where the miscommunication/disagreement arises, and then try to resolve it.

And before you say that what I said above means that it's the victim's responsibility to resolve the problem, then no. Somebody from our side should be involved in facilitating that, making sure that it actually happens so that the disagreement and the rage are resolved. Trying to get us to just stop using those mean words and pretend that we're honky-dorry in public will just let the issue fester under the surface, and become worse rather than better.

You know, this is the kind of stuff that diplomats are for. Sure, in our sector, diplomats have been relegated to negotiating treaties and relaying nice messages from Monarch to Monarch, but real diplomats are there for the purpose of resolving disputes. That's part of the reason why permanent ambassadors were created in the first place (see: Renaissance Diplomacy by Garrett Mattingly).

[Gerk]

But he's not going to want to stick around and try to find out more information if he sees that kind of insult. First impressions are big, and people would rather be an enemy because of any number of little things than a friend in spite of all of them.

Wow, that was deep. I'm going to save that one.

[Octavius]

Which is why there should be a diplomatic presence there, to deal with it on their turf. Either way, it's better to know that there's a problem and provide a gateway towards fixing it than to keep it buried so that it can fester.

[Gerk]

Agreed. And with that, I'm going to have to sign off for the night, even though it's only just past 8, because you people went and got me caught up in too many discussions, and ruined my plans for other things I wanted to do. Be back tomorrow.

[Octavius]

Sorry! Just blame Scott. It's what everyone else does.

[Harvey]

And before you say that what I said above means that it's the victim's responsibility to resolve the problem, then no. Somebody from our side should be involved in facilitating that, making sure that it actually happens so that the disagreement and the rage are resolved.

Gotta earn my wings!

[Octavius]

Yeah, I do feel like I'm advocating for a Minister to the Microwiki Sector... maybe the Small Commonwealth can spearhead it. It'll, you know, actually give the SC some purpose while it's still around.

[Malliki]

Chris, we've left the SC, and it's dead, and it can't appoint ambassadors, even if it wasn't dead.

[Daniel]

The SC can only do that which is confered upon it by treaties. No treaty for ambassadors exist, so...