Microwiki thread: Application

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Malliki
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Malliki »

Corey, is this a general principle you have, or does it just apply to micronations?
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Harvey
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Harvey »

I feel like this discussion is becoming increasingly vague and hypothetical. Are we still talking about certain comments made in regards to Wikinations? And, if so, 1) how are people not allowed to have opinions on that and 2) if Wikinations are really worth negotiating with, they'll be able to see beyond one or two vocal bad apples, much like many of us are forced to do within Bastion. And that last statement is NOT including just the Antican and Babkhan newcomers.

If we're not talking about that at all, then I apologize for diversion and ask you to please do try to steer the conversation towards something a bit more concrete.

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Entropious
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Entropious »

Scott Alexander wrote:You're going to make one heck of a schoolteacher one day, Chris. I suggest kindergarten, so you can teach kids that bullying is okay and the fault of the victims not being thick-skinned enough early, before anyone pollutes their mind with namby-pamby liberalism.
Kindergarten is too late! He should probably be a doctor, so he can get to them right out the womb!

Andreas the Wise
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Malliki wrote:No, I won't.
Sorry :neutral: . My comment was partly tongue in cheek but I had also thought it captured the general gist of what you had said in our chat. I must have misinterpreted you. Sorry. :oops:



And Harvey - a little while ago I said I'd give it two months. I stand by that statement. I may have to change what happens after that time, but I'm still going to give it two months. After all, it's only been about a week so far. Lots of things might happen between now and then =p


A more on-topic reply from me with practical solutions will probably come tomorrow.
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Entropious
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Entropious »

3. Don't turn unrelated comments about internet forum behavior among adults into reasons why some is going to be terrible at the profession they've devoted the past six years of their life to pursuing

4. Let's all be friends!

5. Pie for all!

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Bayen
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Bayen »

6. ?????

7. PROFIT

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Scott Alexander
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Scott Alexander »

Don't turn unrelated comments about internet forum behavior among adults into reasons why some is going to be terrible at the profession they've devoted the past six years of their life to pursuing
:pale:

I did not mean to imply anyone was going to be bad at any profession. I meant that as a future teacher Chris probably understands how much trouble bullying and a hostile environment can cause people - but apparently this was the wrong thing to say, which I regret and apologize for. But in an unintended and horrible and unfortunate way, it does prove the point that "just have thick skin" is easier said than done, and that we need mechanisms to prevent everyone, including me, from hurting anyone else.
Last edited by Scott Alexander on Tue Feb 15, 2011 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Hesam Jayatar
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Hesam Jayatar »

Okay, so here's [edit]three[/edit] points:

1. How do you expect to enforce this 'code of morals" you're drafting?

2. If you do have a means of enforcing it, by what authority would you?

3. Andreas specifically: You're waiting two months for what? For Malliki to act out? Then what? you'll ignore him?

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Entropious
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Entropious »

Scott Scott Scott wrote:All I meant was that as a future teacher Chris probably understands how much trouble bullying and a hostile environment can cause people!
Scott, while you may have said those things later, your initial comment (You're going to make one heck of a schoolteacher one day, Chris...) was really just a needless personal attack. I assume it was a result of the frustration with the general topic of the thread.

Andreas the Wise
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Alright, I'm going to split this thread because it's been completely moved from the original and I think the original topic (can we agree on these basic community standards) is still important.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave. But he does deserve a cool war ribbon.
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However, this account still manages:
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn - Speaker of Nelaga, Minister of Interior Affairs, and a Micron

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Scott Alexander
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split 2 (about to be merged, stop posting)

Post by Scott Alexander »

I expected it to be taken in context, and I promise that I did not mean that I honestly thought Chris would be a bad schoolteacher. If you won't accept my oath, accept my apology and my promise not to mention that issue again.

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Entropious
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Entropious »

Postcard?

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Scott Alexander
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Re: Microwiki thread: Application

Post by Scott Alexander »

In the mail.

Andreas the Wise
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Re: Agreed Standards

Post by Andreas the Wise »

Emir of Sajin wrote: 1. How do you expect to enforce this 'code of morals" you're drafting?

2. If you do have a means of enforcing it, by what authority would you?

3. Andreas specifically: You're waiting two months for what? For Malliki to act out? Then what? you'll ignore him?
This is as good a place as any to start my proper reply to this thread.

1. I'm not sure about enforcement at this point, and still not sure whether some sort of published standards is helpful or not (as I said in the original thread, since people are taking it different ways). In an ideal world, we wouldn't even need published standards (an ideal world can, for the purposes of this exercise, be defined as "the Gralan forums for several years, and the Bastion forums before these arguments started" - as both didn't have this problem and didn't need published standards because pretty much everyone implicitly had the same standards in their heads). We're not in an ideal world at the moment.
In terms of my vague thoughts on enforcement at this stage, yelling at people every time they seem to break it is not a good idea and I would oppose that. It may be helpful to just warn people in a friendly matter (Like, "Andreas, be careful, your posts are starting to sound like personal attacks on X and I know you don't want to do that," or "Andreas, calm down and think about that post again, I think you went too far."); depending on how often they make inappropriate posts would determine whether it was appropriate to warn them straight away or after they've made a couple dodgy posts in the same thread. It must definitely be done in a spirit of friendship and trying to get the person to see they've done wrong and correct it themselves, and not used as a means of attacking your least favourite person behind the justifications of "the code" or as a means of cheap point scoring.
When threads are starting to get into clear flame wars (like say the original Bastionado's Guide to Dealing with Malliki, between Corey and Malliki) then I imagine that mods would lock the thread. Finally, anything like banning people (whether from a particular forum or the whole set of common forums) would definitely need a community consensus decision.
I'm not convinced on much of this yet, apart from how not to do it, as I've bolded, but those are my vague thoughts at the moment.

2. This is a much easier question. If we could actually make a consensus decision on appropriate forum etiquette, then any enforcement is by the authority of the whole community, which is about as authoritative as you can get OOC.

3. I'm waiting two months to see whether letting Babkha and Antica into Bastion was a mistake or not. Two months should be ample time for things to settle down and sort themselves out if they are going to, and for me to be able to make a calm and LT judgement. Originally, I think I told Harvey that if it didn't work out, then I would go to ignoring the common forums rather like I do the MCS.
The character Andreas the Wise is on indefinite leave. But he does deserve a cool war ribbon.
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However, this account still manages:
Vincent Waldgrave - Lord General of Gralus
Manuel - CEO of VBNC. For all you'll ever need.
Q - Director of SAMIN
Duke Mel'Kat - Air Pirate, Melangian, and Duke of the Flying Duchy of Glanurchy
Cla'Udi - Count of Melangia
Vur'Alm Xei'Bôn - Speaker of Nelaga, Minister of Interior Affairs, and a Micron

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