Maybe we should set our own standard and with specifics (also in response to Thorgils). There are many things forbidden in more restrictive countries that I don't think we're looking to restrict here and "know it when you see it" has a very broad brush.Kaiser Hjalmar Redquill wrote:Point taken. But unless the Bill was amended before your remarks, I think the references in the Bill were labeled "NSFW" material, using this standard: "if it cannot be viewed by employees of the Government of any internationally recognised sovereign jurisdiction" it would be NSFW.
A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Moderator: (Shireroth) Praetor
- Mira Octavius-Aryani
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
- Heath Belledin
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
I support setting our own standard. I'd also like to make, or see made, an expando template that specifically marks the contents within as NSFW.
Played by Hālian
- Mira Octavius-Aryani
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Indeed. In fact... I'll go make one.
{{NSFW| }}
It can be fleshed out further as necessary.
{{NSFW| }}
It can be fleshed out further as necessary.
- Heath Belledin
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
It's a regular expando right now, but I'll see if I can't add some sort of notice to it. Watch this space.
Played by Hālian
- Heath Belledin
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Added bookend notices with a skip link; however, I couldn't get the expand button to fit into the start one.
Played by Hālian
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- "The devil in the details"
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
As the debate period has, I believe, elapsed - I motion to vote.
- Heath Belledin
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Lady Prætor,Section B: The Competence of the Imperial States
1. The Imperial States have exclusive jurisdiction to legislate on matters regarding
a) Internal organisation and administration,
b) Culture,
c) Local criminal law,
d) Infrastructure,
e) Education,
f) Enforcement of state law,
g) Civil defence, and
h) Local defence.
2. Imperial law in these areas is superseded by state law.
I hereby request you to declare this Bill a Non-Binding Non-Resolution because it infringes upon the exclusive constitutional right of the Imperial States to legislate upon matters of culture and education.
King of Elwynn
Prince of Natopia
Jarl and Grand Elector of Jorvik
- Noor bint Daniyal
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Lady Prætor
My Lord Husband has come before this house to request that the bill be changed to a non-binding resolution.
I must, with all respect due, oppose that motion.
It is not the Prætor's role to determine the constitutionality of matters. Under the Charter, it is the Judex. Further, making rulings on hypothetical matters (as would a ruling on a bill be, because it might not even be adopted by the Landsraad) is a violation of the due process in the imperial republic. If this bill passes, which it may not for all I know, and the King of Elwynn holds strongly that the bill infringes on his office, he would have standing to request judicial review in the Judex. It is the Judex that arbiters every matter of constitutional dispute. That's in our Charter.
In his motion, my royal husband has not made a case as to why the bill would contradict the Charter. It is disrespectful to the author of the bill to not address any concerns on clauses that may be unconstitutional to them, or indeed, to the whole house. What the King here does is request that you, Lady Prætor, with a simple pen-strike change the nature of this bill. He does not educate the Landsraad as to his concerns, he does not examplify them, he does not describe them.
Accordingly, Lady Prætor, I ask that you deny that motion, and instead invite the good king, my beloved husband, to debate the bill as is his right as a lord elector of this house.
My Lord Husband has come before this house to request that the bill be changed to a non-binding resolution.
I must, with all respect due, oppose that motion.
It is not the Prætor's role to determine the constitutionality of matters. Under the Charter, it is the Judex. Further, making rulings on hypothetical matters (as would a ruling on a bill be, because it might not even be adopted by the Landsraad) is a violation of the due process in the imperial republic. If this bill passes, which it may not for all I know, and the King of Elwynn holds strongly that the bill infringes on his office, he would have standing to request judicial review in the Judex. It is the Judex that arbiters every matter of constitutional dispute. That's in our Charter.
In his motion, my royal husband has not made a case as to why the bill would contradict the Charter. It is disrespectful to the author of the bill to not address any concerns on clauses that may be unconstitutional to them, or indeed, to the whole house. What the King here does is request that you, Lady Prætor, with a simple pen-strike change the nature of this bill. He does not educate the Landsraad as to his concerns, he does not examplify them, he does not describe them.
Accordingly, Lady Prætor, I ask that you deny that motion, and instead invite the good king, my beloved husband, to debate the bill as is his right as a lord elector of this house.
NOOR AS-SALAAM BINT DANIYAL UMRA SULEIMAN AYREON-KALIRION IBN AL-MAJEED AL-OSMAN BIN SATHRATI AF ETTLINGUM FREYU UMM ZAHIR AL-DIN OF WAFFEL-PAINE
Queen of Goldshire, the Elian Lands, Leng, Elwynn, Amokolia and Uppland
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- "The devil in the details"
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Lady Praetor,
All the time this has been debated in the IAC, all the time the bill has been before the Landsraad, and the King of Elwynn remained silent. Only now, as we reach the point of voting does he try and make this unilateral change which would neuter the effect of the law. I find this timing to be questionable.
The shirewiki is an imperial institution, states may legislate and act as they will, but how those matters are recorded in the wiki as a public record of the Imperial Government, and thus subject to Imperial rather than State law, is a matter for the Lawbook.
I endorse the Queen of Goldshire's observations and cannot accept, for what it is worth, this proposed change as being friendly.
All the time this has been debated in the IAC, all the time the bill has been before the Landsraad, and the King of Elwynn remained silent. Only now, as we reach the point of voting does he try and make this unilateral change which would neuter the effect of the law. I find this timing to be questionable.
The shirewiki is an imperial institution, states may legislate and act as they will, but how those matters are recorded in the wiki as a public record of the Imperial Government, and thus subject to Imperial rather than State law, is a matter for the Lawbook.
I endorse the Queen of Goldshire's observations and cannot accept, for what it is worth, this proposed change as being friendly.
- Kaiser Hjalmar Redquill
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
My Esteemed Lady Praetor,
I have to join the chorus of opposition to making this piece of legislation a non-binding non-resolution. It is my Dear Father’s interpretation that this infringes upon the rights of States to develop their culture.
I must disagree. This does nothing to inflict harm on the ability of States to develop their culture and legislate on the matter. This piece of legislation affects ShireWiki, which is a community resource used by all the Imperial States, hosted and administered by the Imperial Government, in particular the Minister of the Interior.
This is a standard that would enforce basic guidelines to protect ShireWiki, ensure greater participation is not threatened by needless and gratuitous indecency and nudity. We need standards to ensure that participants can take part in ShireWiki and use its resources, without having to worry about a pair of tits taking control of their screens and getting them in trouble.
Should the Praetor move to accept the motion by the King of Elwynn, I stand ready to make this into an Imperial Decree.
I have to join the chorus of opposition to making this piece of legislation a non-binding non-resolution. It is my Dear Father’s interpretation that this infringes upon the rights of States to develop their culture.
I must disagree. This does nothing to inflict harm on the ability of States to develop their culture and legislate on the matter. This piece of legislation affects ShireWiki, which is a community resource used by all the Imperial States, hosted and administered by the Imperial Government, in particular the Minister of the Interior.
This is a standard that would enforce basic guidelines to protect ShireWiki, ensure greater participation is not threatened by needless and gratuitous indecency and nudity. We need standards to ensure that participants can take part in ShireWiki and use its resources, without having to worry about a pair of tits taking control of their screens and getting them in trouble.
Should the Praetor move to accept the motion by the King of Elwynn, I stand ready to make this into an Imperial Decree.
Kaiser of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth
Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
My Lords and Ladies,
As ShireWiki is a collection of cultural items - mainly writings and images - it has, due to the coming into force of the present Charter of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth last Gregorian year, gone through a similar change as that other community resource: Shireroth’s forums. In other words: the cultural items in ShireWiki are nowadays divided between, and governed by, four different jurisdictions, to wit: the Federal Government, the Elwynnese Union, the Kingdom of Goldshire, and the Kingdom of Lichbrook.
Each of those jurisdictions has the exclusive power to legislate upon any and all matters concerning the cultural items in ShireWiki which are within its purview. Imperial States also have the additional constitutional power to supersede any Imperial Decree or Act of Landsraad regarding their cultural items in ShireWiki.
Since the Bill before us on the Floor of the Hall of Oratory is intended to provide for ShireWikiwide regulations, it goes beyond the purview of the Landsraad - which is nowadays confined to cultural items about the Imperial Government and the Imperial Dominions - trespassing into the exclusive jurisdiction of the three Imperial States.
The Bill before us is its present form unconstitutional and in consequence thereof, very unfortunately, a Non-Binding Non-Resolution and to make it constitutional its scope must be limited to cultural items about the Imperial Government and the Imperial Dominions. I will allow a few days to give the Arandur of Alalehzamin and Utasia the opportunity to make necessary amendments to Bill if he wishes so.
As ShireWiki is a collection of cultural items - mainly writings and images - it has, due to the coming into force of the present Charter of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth last Gregorian year, gone through a similar change as that other community resource: Shireroth’s forums. In other words: the cultural items in ShireWiki are nowadays divided between, and governed by, four different jurisdictions, to wit: the Federal Government, the Elwynnese Union, the Kingdom of Goldshire, and the Kingdom of Lichbrook.
Each of those jurisdictions has the exclusive power to legislate upon any and all matters concerning the cultural items in ShireWiki which are within its purview. Imperial States also have the additional constitutional power to supersede any Imperial Decree or Act of Landsraad regarding their cultural items in ShireWiki.
Since the Bill before us on the Floor of the Hall of Oratory is intended to provide for ShireWikiwide regulations, it goes beyond the purview of the Landsraad - which is nowadays confined to cultural items about the Imperial Government and the Imperial Dominions - trespassing into the exclusive jurisdiction of the three Imperial States.
The Bill before us is its present form unconstitutional and in consequence thereof, very unfortunately, a Non-Binding Non-Resolution and to make it constitutional its scope must be limited to cultural items about the Imperial Government and the Imperial Dominions. I will allow a few days to give the Arandur of Alalehzamin and Utasia the opportunity to make necessary amendments to Bill if he wishes so.
High Priestess of the Mackerel Temple
Princess of Elwynn
Princess of Anun
Countess of Northshire, of Arietta, and of the Lady Esther Isles
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- "The devil in the details"
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Lady Praetor,
Out of courtesy, I will respond more fully later regarding the substance of your decision where I disagree fundamentally with your interpretation of the nature of the shirewiki, but for the meantime I give notice that I will be taking this matter to the Imperial Judex.
Out of courtesy, I will respond more fully later regarding the substance of your decision where I disagree fundamentally with your interpretation of the nature of the shirewiki, but for the meantime I give notice that I will be taking this matter to the Imperial Judex.
- Heath Belledin
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Lady Prætor
I object to the decision which has presently issued from your chair. The ShireWiki is a resource for the benefit of all Shireroth — and, more importantly, under the purview of the imperial Ministry of the Interior — and erecting legal barriers to its continued good existence is such a terrible idea that I have lost all faith in your ability to direct the Landsraad to work for the collective good of the entire Imperial Republic.
I object to the decision which has presently issued from your chair. The ShireWiki is a resource for the benefit of all Shireroth — and, more importantly, under the purview of the imperial Ministry of the Interior — and erecting legal barriers to its continued good existence is such a terrible idea that I have lost all faith in your ability to direct the Landsraad to work for the collective good of the entire Imperial Republic.
Played by Hālian
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- Major Asshole
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
As the sitting Arbiter I must also object. The Shirewiki is due to ancient principle owned by the Imperial government. That it happens to record cultural issues does not detract from that fact.
Malliki Nur Pinito
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- Major Asshole
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Regardless, to say what the law is is the prerogative of the judiciary, not the Praetor.
Malliki Nur Pinito
Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
If a state had its own wiki and the Imperial government tried to regulate it, that would be one thing, but this is the government of Shireroth regulating the wiki of Shireroth. I fail to see the issue here and, frankly, see the objections made to the amendment as a delay tactic given the timing. Not saying that's what this is, just what it looks like
P.S. I mean, it's not like regulating it will do any harm. Mostly all we want is to get rid of over the top... tops on the wiki like this: http://shireroth.org/shirewiki/File:Godsgrove2.jpg
I like the female form as much as anyone else, but come on
P.S. I mean, it's not like regulating it will do any harm. Mostly all we want is to get rid of over the top... tops on the wiki like this: http://shireroth.org/shirewiki/File:Godsgrove2.jpg
I like the female form as much as anyone else, but come on
Ryker00X
Ryker of the Sovereign Confederation
Head of House Redquill
Ryker of the Sovereign Confederation
Head of House Redquill
- Vilhelm Benkern
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
My Lady Prætor
The highest appreciation that I have for you and your good work does not extend to permitting such an abrogation of the Landsraad's rights emanating from the presiding officer's chair. With the greatest respect, the pre-judgement of the legality of this motion must be withdrawn, or we shall have to have a Prætorial election.
I agree with the view of His Honour, the Arbiter in this matter, who has at long last been restored to his seat among the Imperial Electorate - I welcome him back.
I also agree with the view of the Imperial Inquisitor, the good doctor Belledin, that the ShireWiki is an Imperial encyclopaedic institution and not the sovereign property of the Imperial States.
e: re Ryker's post - I still don't care about the Godsgrove stuff ya bunch of prudes...
The highest appreciation that I have for you and your good work does not extend to permitting such an abrogation of the Landsraad's rights emanating from the presiding officer's chair. With the greatest respect, the pre-judgement of the legality of this motion must be withdrawn, or we shall have to have a Prætorial election.
I agree with the view of His Honour, the Arbiter in this matter, who has at long last been restored to his seat among the Imperial Electorate - I welcome him back.
I also agree with the view of the Imperial Inquisitor, the good doctor Belledin, that the ShireWiki is an Imperial encyclopaedic institution and not the sovereign property of the Imperial States.
e: re Ryker's post - I still don't care about the Godsgrove stuff ya bunch of prudes...
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
My Lord of Mar Sara,Vilhelm Benkern wrote:The highest appreciation that I have for you and your good work does not extend to permitting such an abrogation of the Landsraad's rights emanating from the presiding officer's chair.
The power of the Prætor to declare an item before the Landsraad a Non-Binding Non-Resolution emerged out of necessity when Jack attempted to unconstitutionally disband Shireroth.
That said, you do have a point though and tomorrow I shall come up with a By-Law concerning Non-Binding Non-Resolutions including provisions which give the Imperial Electorate the power to overrule the Chair.
High Priestess of the Mackerel Temple
Princess of Elwynn
Princess of Anun
Countess of Northshire, of Arietta, and of the Lady Esther Isles
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Re: A Bill for the Regulation of the Shirewiki
Lady Prætor,
Many of my fellow electors have given voice to my concerns far more eloquently than I ever could. I am gladdened in particular to hear that you are taking into consideration the observations of the Elector of Mar Sara.
In view of this, and pending the outcome of proceedings in the Imperial Judex, I withdraw this Bill until such time as its reintroduction is appropriate.
Please be assured of my continuing utmost regard.
Many of my fellow electors have given voice to my concerns far more eloquently than I ever could. I am gladdened in particular to hear that you are taking into consideration the observations of the Elector of Mar Sara.
In view of this, and pending the outcome of proceedings in the Imperial Judex, I withdraw this Bill until such time as its reintroduction is appropriate.
Please be assured of my continuing utmost regard.