I'm given to understand that this is not the full story, so we shouldn't be so short with these Republicans unless we want to keep the Imperial Alexandria on side. Reminds me of the Antican split...Monty wrote:Oh the follies of a bygone age.
BTW, just a heads up as this was a topic about Alexandria, some little 15 yr old(s) I think joined up and decided to split. They've subsequently set up the "Republic of Alexandria" which is farming posts and all kinds from the Empire's site. If they approach anyone at Bastion, might be worthwhile telling them to fuck off before they start stealing culture.
Regarding Republic of Alexandria
- Vilhelm Benkern
- Posts: 3833
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:08 am
Regarding Republic of Alexandria
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
I tried trawling through the Empire's boards, and I'll be damned if I understand exactly what's happening. It looked like they tried to pass a constitutional amendment that would limit the Emperor's power, at first he was in favor, they discussed it, then he got more wary... but at what point it turned into a civil war I have no idea.
I tried going to the Republic's board, but the link timed out.
I tried going to the Republic's board, but the link timed out.
Shyriath Farstrider (aka Shyriath Bukolos), KD MOU OLH XBH
Viscount Farstrider of Erysisceptrum, Count Bukolos of the Condo, Harbinger of Cheese
TOTUS MUNDUS TABULAM RASAM EST
Viscount Farstrider of Erysisceptrum, Count Bukolos of the Condo, Harbinger of Cheese
TOTUS MUNDUS TABULAM RASAM EST
- Flavius Myksos
- Posts: 268
- Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 2:48 pm
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
Seeing that the 'revolution' was started by someone who became member in January, I have the to disagree.Vilhelm Benkern wrote: I'm given to understand that this is not the full story, so we shouldn't be so short with these Republicans unless we want to keep the Imperial Alexandria on side. Reminds me of the Antican split...
Dutch of the Dutchy of Kildare.
Dominator of the Eastern Empire by the Grace of Cato and the Kaiser.
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Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
If the imperial government believes that the Republic had a right to unilaterally secede, than I can only interpret that to extend to imperial states too.
Deimos Jasonides| Деймоос Ясооннаи | Deimoos Jasoonnai
Grand Officer of the Holy Order of the Strait of Barbary
Former Prime Minister of the State of Talenore
Former Sovereign Prince of Elwynn
Just another Ric
Grand Officer of the Holy Order of the Strait of Barbary
Former Prime Minister of the State of Talenore
Former Sovereign Prince of Elwynn
Just another Ric
- Vilhelm Benkern
- Posts: 3833
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:08 am
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
Your logic is flawed, there are substantial differences between the Alexandrian and Shirerithian constitutions.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
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- Posts: 1176
- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:53 pm
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
The difference is that Alexandria is an accountable democracy which makes any spport of the failed coup-performers even more crazy.
Deimos Jasonides| Деймоос Ясооннаи | Deimoos Jasoonnai
Grand Officer of the Holy Order of the Strait of Barbary
Former Prime Minister of the State of Talenore
Former Sovereign Prince of Elwynn
Just another Ric
Grand Officer of the Holy Order of the Strait of Barbary
Former Prime Minister of the State of Talenore
Former Sovereign Prince of Elwynn
Just another Ric
- Vilhelm Benkern
- Posts: 3833
- Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:08 am
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
Our interpretations differ once more about the quality of Alexandrian government and democracy.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom
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- Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:53 pm
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
I suppose it does not matter in any case, the question is whether to enter relations with them.
I request that we don't, for the following reasons:
1. All coup-makers came to Alexandria in the inactivity period just after new year's after Alexandria was threatened with MCS forced reduction.
2. The main instigator, Elizabeth Howard, single-handedly wrote the Constitution and personally agreed to the amendments to it as friendly, the Chamber of Citizens then voted to confirm it.
3. Before the adoption of the Constitution, Howard was appointed First Consul (chief executive).
4. There was a spat between the 1st Consul and the Emperor behind closes doors. The Emperor agreed to disagree with the 1st Consul and still lend his support by her government.
5. The Consulate then unanimously voted to declare the Empire a Republic, the Emperor deposed and the Constitution suspended, before the Imperial Assembly (the democratic legislature of Alexandria) had had time to meet (it was scheduled to be opened on 13 March).
6. There was no emergency so dire that the Consulate could not have had time to wait until the Assembly had met to then ask the Assembly to consider the issues. Further, the Assembly could have then resolved to amend the constution by simple majority, and in the case of the Emperor vetoing it, override the veto with two-thirds' majority vote. If this had happened, then the Republic would have had democratic legitimacy. This has not happened. It does not have any legitimacy.
7. Nor does the Republic control any territory, its government seems dormant and its activity on the forums are appallingly low.
8. Do we really wish to antagonize one of our oldest friends, the Alexandrian Empire?
9. Are there any good reasons to enter into relaitons with the Republic?
I request that we don't, for the following reasons:
1. All coup-makers came to Alexandria in the inactivity period just after new year's after Alexandria was threatened with MCS forced reduction.
2. The main instigator, Elizabeth Howard, single-handedly wrote the Constitution and personally agreed to the amendments to it as friendly, the Chamber of Citizens then voted to confirm it.
3. Before the adoption of the Constitution, Howard was appointed First Consul (chief executive).
4. There was a spat between the 1st Consul and the Emperor behind closes doors. The Emperor agreed to disagree with the 1st Consul and still lend his support by her government.
5. The Consulate then unanimously voted to declare the Empire a Republic, the Emperor deposed and the Constitution suspended, before the Imperial Assembly (the democratic legislature of Alexandria) had had time to meet (it was scheduled to be opened on 13 March).
6. There was no emergency so dire that the Consulate could not have had time to wait until the Assembly had met to then ask the Assembly to consider the issues. Further, the Assembly could have then resolved to amend the constution by simple majority, and in the case of the Emperor vetoing it, override the veto with two-thirds' majority vote. If this had happened, then the Republic would have had democratic legitimacy. This has not happened. It does not have any legitimacy.
7. Nor does the Republic control any territory, its government seems dormant and its activity on the forums are appallingly low.
8. Do we really wish to antagonize one of our oldest friends, the Alexandrian Empire?
9. Are there any good reasons to enter into relaitons with the Republic?
Deimos Jasonides| Деймоос Ясооннаи | Deimoos Jasoonnai
Grand Officer of the Holy Order of the Strait of Barbary
Former Prime Minister of the State of Talenore
Former Sovereign Prince of Elwynn
Just another Ric
Grand Officer of the Holy Order of the Strait of Barbary
Former Prime Minister of the State of Talenore
Former Sovereign Prince of Elwynn
Just another Ric
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
Particularly if we want to seek their support for the MCS thing.Deimos Jasonides wrote:8. Do we really wish to antagonize one of our oldest friends, the Alexandrian Empire?
Shyriath Farstrider (aka Shyriath Bukolos), KD MOU OLH XBH
Viscount Farstrider of Erysisceptrum, Count Bukolos of the Condo, Harbinger of Cheese
TOTUS MUNDUS TABULAM RASAM EST
Viscount Farstrider of Erysisceptrum, Count Bukolos of the Condo, Harbinger of Cheese
TOTUS MUNDUS TABULAM RASAM EST
- Kaiser Mo'll I
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:01 am
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
See my response to the Republic request at the MiniEx.
Shireroth is not so stupid as to recognise a tiresome putsch in a foreign nation for no other reason than them asking us to (unless of course it was directly beneficial to Shireroth's interests, which in this case it isn't). Shame on anybody who thinks I would even consider it.
By the end of my reign, the 'Republic' will have vanished and few will remember it ever existed. I guarantee it.
Shireroth is not so stupid as to recognise a tiresome putsch in a foreign nation for no other reason than them asking us to (unless of course it was directly beneficial to Shireroth's interests, which in this case it isn't). Shame on anybody who thinks I would even consider it.
By the end of my reign, the 'Republic' will have vanished and few will remember it ever existed. I guarantee it.
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
So I found this at the Zolt flea market the other day. The seller claims it's a draft state portrait of Your Niftiness, and I must say, if nothing else, the resemblance is quite striking...
()
- Kaiser Mo'll I
- Posts: 331
- Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2014 11:01 am
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
*dwells on an old idea he had for a tailors' business in Lunaris*
Also, that portrait is a wildly inaccurate forgery. I... categorically affirm it.
Also, that portrait is a wildly inaccurate forgery. I... categorically affirm it.
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
Rei Milharna wrote:So I found this at the Zolt flea market the other day. The seller claims it's a draft state portrait of Your Niftiness, and I must say, if nothing else, the resemblance is quite striking...
()
Dammit, you two nearly made me cough soda all over my tablet with this...Kaiser Mo'll I wrote:*dwells on an old idea he had for a tailors' business in Lunaris*
Also, that portrait is a wildly inaccurate forgery. I... categorically affirm it.
Shyriath Farstrider (aka Shyriath Bukolos), KD MOU OLH XBH
Viscount Farstrider of Erysisceptrum, Count Bukolos of the Condo, Harbinger of Cheese
TOTUS MUNDUS TABULAM RASAM EST
Viscount Farstrider of Erysisceptrum, Count Bukolos of the Condo, Harbinger of Cheese
TOTUS MUNDUS TABULAM RASAM EST
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
Meh, you humans all look the same to me.Kaiser Mo'll I wrote:*dwells on an old idea he had for a tailors' business in Lunaris*
Also, that portrait is a wildly inaccurate forgery. I... categorically affirm it.
Glad I could be of service.Shyriath wrote:Dammit, you two nearly made me cough soda all over my tablet with this...
- Lyssansa Rossheim
- Posts: 691
- Joined: Sat Jun 01, 2013 8:02 pm
Re: Regarding Republic of Alexandria
The "Republic" has been dissolved and the renegade former First Consul, Elizabeth Howard, has agreed to rejoin the Empire as a result of a deal brokered by Jean Carmichel and the Archbishop of Geneva.Kaiser Mo'll I wrote:By the end of my reign, the 'Republic' will have vanished and few will remember it ever existed. I guarantee it.
Actually, it reminds me a lot of the situation in Shireroth. Alexandria has been struggling for a long time with inactivity and apathy and previous attempts to restore the situation have been hampered by Edgard's repeated absences at the helm of a political structure where the emperor still retains a lot of power. The situation has further deteriorated recently and the MCS reduction, coming soon after an earlier attempt coup, has prompted some serious soul searching, as a result of which it was decided to make the emperor's role more ceremonial in nature.Vilhelm Benkern wrote:I'm given to understand that this is not the full story, so we shouldn't be so short with these Republicans unless we want to keep the Imperial Alexandria on side. Reminds me of the Antican split...
Howard has been heavily involved in these reforms; since joining, she has been both active and enthusiastic and has consequently enjoyed a meteoric rise to the First Consulship. My feeling is that this went to her head. Being new to Alexandria, I don't think she recognised the level of the support for Edgard and so was unprepared for the backlash when she tried to make the emperor a weak constitutional figurehead modelled after contemporary European monarchies.
It seems that the crisis was sparked off by a proposal to restrict the emperor's right to make even ceremonial appointments without reference to the Consuls; Edgard not unreasonably saw this as a violation of the deal and my guess is that Howard and her allies interpreted it as yet more imperial obstructionism. When Edgard posted details of a private discussion, Howard lost her patience and proclaimed the republic, very possibly expecting most Alexandrians to support her...after all, Edgard's inactivity was one of the main reasons for Alexandria's recent troubles.
Up to this point, I do have some sympathy for Howard, but the subsequent claims that her republic was the only true Alexandria (even though a majority of Alexandrians remained loyal to the Emperor) undoubtedly went too far. Perhaps she was still "in character" and had failed to recognise that the rest of the community had stopped playing along? Who knows.
In conclusion, I'm not convinced that Howard joined Alexandria purely to steal its culture, but I do feel that she has been foolish and naive. Ultimately, this sorry affair is a lesson in what happens if you don't manage change responsibly and sensitively. Alexandria needed to change because the emperor's absences were insupportable under the old system of government, but equally, you can't remove the emperor without destroying much of the country's identity.
Lyssansa
Queen of Minarboria
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Princess and Lichgravine of Lywind, Baroness of Solecism
Queen of Minarboria
Queen of Lichbrook, Duchess of Brookshire
Princess and Lichgravine of Lywind, Baroness of Solecism