Aryasht; Or, Let's Teach Octy How to Use SEP

[Vilhelm Benkern]

As you all may have noticed, Aryasht is interested in joining Shireroth. There was always some idea that maybe Aryasht (and Kaikias-Overseas, which is part of Aryasht) could gravitate towards Shireroth, but for various reasons now is an opportune time. The purpose of this thread is to discuss whether we agree to it, and what form it should take. Aryeztur and myself are the only active Aryashti and we can both view this forum so this is for all points of view.

I've been mulling it over and I reckon an actual annexation wouldn't be viewed favourably with the MCS, because of their disagreement with Shireroth expanding at all, especially after Elwynn rejoining. So I think maybe a Protectorate or Dominion situation would work better - Shyriath's recently written his legal commentary, so I'd like to hear his point of view in particular.

It's a particularly good time because Safiria is leaving Shireroth, so Craitman has agreed (informally, via PM) that Aryasht could join Shireroth if we give up the Safirian stripes and trade them for stripey Aryasht, though with some (potentially significant) mainland reduction to make the disparity in size between Safiria and Aryasht less large.

Thoughts?

[Royston Merrick]

Have the rogue AI from the Death of Antica be held responsible for driving the Aryashti back to their Littoral provinces and I am quite chipper about this proposal.

[Kaiser Aiomide]

I wonder how The Mind is doing these days. Probably begun designer-breeding slave labor to avoid the problem of normal humans resisting.

If Craitman thinks that trading stripes will be acceptable, then let's go for it. How much of a trim are we talking about?

[Aryeztur]

I was thinking of giving up the province that Ryan created since he's not using it anymore. Rather than Aryasht proper hopefully. Some time and effort has been put into that.

[Shyriath]

So I think maybe a Protectorate or Dominion situation would work better - Shyriath's recently written his legal commentary, so I'd like to hear his point of view in particular.

Well, I still have a chapter left to do. (It's actually done, I just haven't posted it yet.)

As for the exact status: yes, a protectorate- or dominion-like situation would be the way to go, because annexation isn't going to fly. Since the late Kaiseress deleted the sections actually defining Protectorates and Dominions, in an internal sense we're not terribly restrained in what kind of treaty happens nor in what kind of terminology we use to describe it, so long as the Landsraad ratifies it. If I may make two basic suggestions, though, to be sure we're covered with the MCS:

-It should be clear that Aryasht is bound to Shireroth by the treaty, not by the Charter, and cannot therefore be considered an Imperial State;

-The treaty explicitly makes provision for the ability of Aryasht to end the treaty, should it be desired, so that its ultimate retention of sovereignty is not questioned.

Otherwise, the terms of the treaty should be whatever makes both parties happy.

[Deimos Jasonides]

I'll keep this short, I hate writing on the phone:

I don't like protectorates. Either a territory is in or its out. These half-solutions are sad and make twodignities of the divisions of Shireroth.


I don't have a good solution. I would love to have Aryasht here. Maybe Aryasht and Shireroth could solidarically both give up some land. Or maybe a Leichenberg system could work?

[Krasniy Yastreb]

stripey Aryasht

Petition to use this as an official name if it becomes a protectorate

Hopefully the MCS will get the hint that we're consistently and blatantly using their satellite state designation as a workaround of the 'no more land for Shireroth' policy, decide the restriction is ineffective and lift it. Although they may just ban us from adding protectorate land instead... it is a silly policy.

But yes, speaking as a non-Aryashti whose home county nonetheless holds a fair few of its ethnic relatives, bring it in

[Aryeztur]

I don't like protectorates. Either a territory is in or its out. These half-solutions are sad and make twodignities of the divisions of Shireroth.

I'm inclined to agree with this. Aryasht has made up its mind to join Shireroth. On its own its done. And Antica isn't getting revived either. Those are most probable facts. On a personal note, I'd also want to get more involved in Shireroth and I like the system, so it would be great to bring in another region/dominion. One of the reasons for my lack of active participation in Shireroth despite being a citizen for a while is my inability to feel any bond with the land I was given (I like to start with local politics before getting involved nationally).

On the question of land. Aryasht has actually moved several times. It would obviously be annoying to relocate one more time but that is possible again, especially since we've been at our current location for not that long and since a new location would be more permanent. I mean to saw, as long as some plot of land either elsewhere or already in Shireroth is found for Aryasht to suit its conditions (preferably in an Indic like climate and peninsula) we don't actually have to cling too strongly to the piece of land that is currently Aryasht though personally it makes sense for everyone to keep that land because it is in the right spot already. I hope y'all catch my drift. As for Kaikias, I assume Chris likes his spot and wants to keep his island, but that probably won't be an issue.

[Royston Merrick]

Well, if you are going to be pedantic about it - it is worth noting that your little endeavour has already died of its own accord and has nothing to offer. Every citizen of Aryasht is already a citizen here, as far as can be recollected, so net population/activity gain for Shireroth is nil. Bringing Aryasht on board is simply being entertained as a notion to indulge you. Accordingly you do not exactly have a position to negotiate from and ought not to be so 'picky'. Rather than throw Ryan's islands under the bus it should be your featureless inland provinces (and the ersatz-Indic culture behind them) that ought to be sliced away in order to propitiate the MCS.

[Vilhelm Benkern]

I think that the Dyre Islands are a really interesting aspect of Aryashti culture and add to the idea that this is more than, as Ardy says, just two already-citizens not rejoining Shireroth, so it would suck to lose them. The mainland of Aryasht is simply too big, at least some of it is definitely going, and the Dyre islands are very small but with a lot of development in each one.

Regarding moving, I don't know what you mean Aryezytur; are you suggesting renaming another county and making it Aryasht? That wouldn't be bad but for example Montauk and hopefully Eastern Norfolk have/ will soon have land-specific development, maps and so forth. If mainland Aryasht wants to move, that's okay - but really the same problem, which county to kill? I again stick to my stripey guns as the most elegant solution.

As to Ric and a lesser extent Aryeztur re: protectorateship - the idea of Shireroth reducing is fine by me, just show me the land. I'd get rid of Absentia but people care about it; but that's true of so much of Shireroth. If not all of it. I personally would prefer an Imperial State of Non-striped Aryasht, but this is a compromise; and anyway, being a protectorate could be interesting.

Thank you for your advice, Shy.

[Aryeztur]

Very well, if we have to shave away some mainland Aryasht, then so be it.

[Shyriath]

You know... if you WERE willing to switch territory and rename a county, Highpass and/or Amarr might be a possibility. Or they were, anyway, before they got divided up between Lichbrook and Yardistan. Up until that point, nothing was really being done with them, anyway, ever since Sanilla moved out. Using them would require the respective States being willing to give them up again, but it might be a way forward.

And there would be a certain amount of historical justice there, too. When Amarr was first started and Rakesh had control of it, it'd been meant to have a Mughal India flavor to it (hence the name Fatehpur Sikri for the capital).

[Aryeztur]

Thanks for that choice. Let us keep that as our choice 2 for now. Lets go with Choice 1 of integration of part of current Aryasht as our first option. I mostly leave the details in the hands of Benkern.

[Deimos Jasonides]

Amarr, Highpass and East Sanilla (Thanatos) declared independence and were thrown out of Shireroth, at least mapwise and the population for IC purposes. So the population there would be very low. Aryasht could grab it. It's not geographically far from the old Parvatvana.

[Warner Barentsz]

Amarr, Highpass and East Sanilla (Thanatos) declared independence and were thrown out of Shireroth, at least mapwise and the population for IC purposes. So the population there would be very low. Aryasht could grab it. It's not geographically far from the old Parvatvana.

(rescinded, Deimos isn't really here)

[Shyriath]

Amarr, Highpass and East Sanilla (Thanatos) declared independence and were thrown out of Shireroth, at least mapwise and the population for IC purposes. So the population there would be very low. Aryasht could grab it. It's not geographically far from the old Parvatvana.

Oh, yes, IC-wise things would be fine. There'd just be some political and legal issues involved, since the land involved now belongs to other States, and (I want to be clear abut this) I can't speak for Lichbrook. This kind of thing would be Rossheim's call.

(Besides which, Thanatos has been split up now, and while I don't know what's in store for the portion that went to Lywind, the chunk that's going toward Shimmerspring I sort of have plans for already. )

Under the circumstances, Aryeztur's probably right that seeing what can be done with Aryasht's current territory is the better option.

[Vilhelm Benkern]

Any area of Solecism going to Aryasht would actually be a good idea. I'm thinking from the MCS' point of view, we could then create a small Imperial State of Aryasht, or bring Aryasht into Musica under Yardistan or Lichbrook's protection; then Liechenburg-Protectorate in Kaikias Overseas and the rest of the Aryashti territories. There's plenty of options. I'm quite indifferent, I'm just acutely aware of the tenderness of the MCS. So Aryeztur, it's up to you, and the relevant Imperial States that might give up land. I must say I think incorporating Aryasht into our current land would probably make this more palatable - but then again we might be shooting ourselves in the foot by making it seem like we can incorporate Aryasht easily without new land.

[Aryeztur]

I don't know where Solecism is. If you look at it another way, Shireroth will also gain if we incorporate current Aryasht in some way, though some of it might be shaved off. I wouldn't mind that option for now as the first shot, but if that ends up being a problem we can consider these second options. Also, I prefer to keep all the regions of Aryasht (including Kaikias) together as either Antica or Aryasht whatever you wish to call it.

[Kaiser Aiomide]

Aryasht, the Imperial State: A Scenario

Amarr_Highpass.png (17.86 KiB) Viewed 2903 times

• This is the region of Benecia proposed as the location for the new Aryashti Imperial State. Amarr is already vacant, but Lichbrook would need to approve the transfer of control of Highpass to the Aryashti Imperial State.
• In order to comply with established MCS restrictions on Shirerithian growth, Kaikias-Overseas (consisting of Kaikias, Skerries, New Brannum, and Kezan) will be made into a protectorate, and receive red stripes. The specifics will need to be established by the treaty, as there is no standing law concerning protectorates.
• Antican Norfolk will be returned to Shireroth. I discussed this with Benkern, and we agreed that Antican Norfolk be named "Norfolk", and that Shirerithian Norfolk be renamed "Suffolk".

[Aryeztur]

To clarify, what was the state of negotiations with the MCS that lead to this scenario, if any?