Question on "Praetor pro tempore"

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Vilhelm Benkern
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Question on "Praetor pro tempore"

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

Not an official question, but in lieu of the Mango Bar, I post here. Under the Charter, the Kaiser is allowed to act as Praetor when one isn't elected (II(c)(a)). He is charged with facilitating the election, AND shall act as Praetor. The Charter also states, as a restriction on the Kaiser, he cannot be elected Praetor. But, I see no restriction on his ability to exercise the powers of the office of Praetor, once he's in it. His Niftiness has just counted up the votes on the Safiria bill and accepted it - the Praetor's job, and this seems in accordance with the Charter. But what stops him from accepting a proposed amendment to the Charter as Praetor? The potential 2/3rds of Landsraad counter-amendment could, although as Praetor he could delay that. Then the only obstacle is the Arbiter, who also has to approve amendments. I put the question to the Arbiter- would he reject such an amendment, on the basis of the Praetorial approval being the Kaiser's? If so, on what legal basis?

(Such a Kaiser would very soon be kicked out by rebellion. He could not, however, be kicked out by the Adelsraad, because their removal must be approved by the Praetor, who is the Kaiser in this scenario.)
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom

Malliki
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Re: Question on "Praetor pro tempore"

Post by Malliki »

The Kaiser may only act as Praetor when a permanent Praetor is being sought. This however does not mean that he is the Praetor, he merely administers the day-to-day duties of the office ad interim. Charter amendments and other important duties may only be performed by a duly elected Praetor. If the Kaiser would approve of a Charter amendment while acting as Praetor, I would reject the amendment. My view is that the Arbiter ensures that the legal process has been respected, while the Praetor ensures that the amendment is in accordance with popular will.

This is not an official ruling, but a statement of opinion by the Arbiter.
Malliki Tosha
Acting Xonuti of the Free State of Sanilla
Poluti Poki'i of Sanilla

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Vilhelm Benkern
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Re: Question on "Praetor pro tempore"

Post by Vilhelm Benkern »

Thank you for putting my mind to rest, informally.

The Praetor ensures the popular will? Is there any legal requirement for the Praetor to give his permission only on the basis of a Landsraad resolution? I've seen it done but I'm not aware of any statutory provision demanding this, and I think in the past Praetors have had pretty much absolute discretion in agreeing to amendments. I would suggest that the popular will is respected by the second method of amending the Charter - 2/3s vote by the Landsraad, approved by Arbiter and Kaiser.
Vilhelm Benkern DEOMI, Member of the Order of the Dragon, Silver Swan, Red Dragon
Dirigent of Musica, Count of Mar Sara
In Aryasht Prapta Vrteti, former Prince of Aryasht; Zaila Vrteti, Norfolknath
In Elwynn Benjamin Sebasokrator Timothy Quentin Kern, Duke of Raikoth
In Khalypsil Representative of the Wisdom

Kaiser Ayreon II
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Re: Question on "Praetor pro tempore"

Post by Kaiser Ayreon II »

There is of course nothing to say that the Arbiter cannot put personal opinion into whether he'll accept an amendment or not, and the same with the Praetor, but I believe there is plenty of custom in Shireroth that the Praetor should be in dialogue with the Landsraad (Jonas was ousted as praetor after Loki put a bill of rights in the Charter), but on the other hand, when Gilles Melang was Arbiter, he unequivocally supported amendments on the Charter based on the Kaiser's Majesty, while Praetor Spraki Krumsson asked the Landsraad.

As with much in Shireroth, there are written laws and general custom.

Malliki
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Re: Question on "Praetor pro tempore"

Post by Malliki »

Benkern, that part of my opinion was entirely personal, not legal.
Malliki Tosha
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Jacobus Loki
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Re: Question on "Praetor pro tempore"

Post by Jacobus Loki »

......that part of my opinion was entirely personal, not legal.
But it was well thought out.
Jacobus Loki

Once and Future King of the Ma'alanje
Prophet of Loki, Wielder of the Sword of Madness

Shireroth sumus. Tempus in parte nostrum est.

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