Question re states and treaties

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Aasmund Vigeland
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Question re states and treaties

Post by Aasmund Vigeland »

Question for interpretation of the Charter


DEMOCRATIC PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF ELWYNN
applicant



The government of the Democratic People's Republic of Elwynn has the honour to ask the Judex, in accordance with the interpretation clauses of the Charter and Lawbook, the following question with regard to a State entering into a treaty with a foreign state:

Does a treaty between an Imperial State and a foreign power need to be ratified by the Landsraad?

Article V, sections A and B:1-2:
Article V: Imperial States

Section A: Definition

Imperial States are sovereign states in federal union with the Imperial Republic.

Section B: Local Sovereignty

1. Imperial States are sovereign in all matters not expressly reserved to other individuals or bodies by the Charter.

2. Imperial States make their own laws and select their own rulers from among their citizens, subject to the constraints of the Charter.
By this phrasing, it would seem that States are fully sovereign to enter into treaties with other States, foreign as well as imperial. Lichbrook and Elwynn signed a treaty, along with the Kaiser, on the borders of the Shirekeep region.

However, the Landsraad "Ratifies treaties with foreign powers" (II B c) while the Kaiser issues imperial decrees for "The direction of the foreign policy of the Imperial Republic" (II A a).

Respectfully submitted.
Elwynn prevails!

Aasmund Vigeland | Аоосмунд Вигыланд
Supreme Commander of the Elwynnese Union Defence Forces
Minister of Military Affairs of the Republic of Shireroth

Malliki Nur Pinito
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Malliki Nur Pinito »

The matter is accepted, the Petitioner is found to have standing under Chapter 3, Section C, 1-3.

I name this Question Re: Treaty powers of Imperial States. I find that Aasmund Vigeland, Chairman of the Presidium etc., shall be named Petitioner, and Stellus Yastreb, Steward of Shireroth, as Respondent.

Agenda:
1. Presentation by the Petitioner.
2. Reply by the Respondent.
3. Rebuttal by the Petitioner.
4. Rebuttal by the Respondent.
5. Amicus Curiae.
6. Closing arguments (Petitioner, Respondent).
7. Opinion of the Judex.

The parties may be represented by counsel, and may choose to waive any or all submissions. My preliminary time allocation is 24 hours per stage, which may be extended on request.
Malliki Nur Pinito

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Stellus Yastreb
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Stellus Yastreb »

Milord Arbiter,

On account of Minister Everstone's recent and ongoing indisposition, I should like to assume his role as Respondent on behalf of the Imperial Republic of Shireroth, in my capacity as Steward.
Stellus Ryabinevich Dolorvenuk Yastreb
- Count of Lunaris in the Duchy of Goldshire
Head of the House of Yastreb, honoured throughout history as follows: Member of the Order of the Dragon, recipent of the Silver Swan Award (Imperial) recipent of the Order of the Silver Orchid (Elwynn) Knight Comrade of the Order of Mischievous Intent (Yardistan) Arx-Piscator of the Piscatores Alexandrii (Brookshire) Knight of the Nishan-i-Liaqat (Babkha), Paranoid Narcissist (everywhere)

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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Malliki Nur Pinito »

Granted.
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Ryker
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Ryker »

*Comes running in with papers trailing behind* Sorry I was gone, back now, fun time! What seems to be the problem?
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Stellus Yastreb »

Chairman Vigeland has put a legal question to the Arbiter, who for whatever reason has seen fit to test it adversarially. I believe Elwynn wants to make treaties with non-Shirerithian states in defiance of the Imperial Government, and the legality of it doing so is the question posed here. We are here to defend the Imperial Government's stance that such relations are reserved to the Kaiser and Landsraad by the Charter.

We now await a fuller Presentation from Chairman Vigeland as per point 1 of the agenda, should he wish to make one.
Stellus Ryabinevich Dolorvenuk Yastreb
- Count of Lunaris in the Duchy of Goldshire
Head of the House of Yastreb, honoured throughout history as follows: Member of the Order of the Dragon, recipent of the Silver Swan Award (Imperial) recipent of the Order of the Silver Orchid (Elwynn) Knight Comrade of the Order of Mischievous Intent (Yardistan) Arx-Piscator of the Piscatores Alexandrii (Brookshire) Knight of the Nishan-i-Liaqat (Babkha), Paranoid Narcissist (everywhere)

Aasmund Vigeland
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Aasmund Vigeland »

Comrade Arbiter

The petitioner -- the Democratic People's Republic of Elwynn -- humbly asks the Court to adjudge and declare that States have the sovereign right to enter into treaties with foreign powers without requesting ratification from the Landsraad or alignment with imperial decree.



States are sovereign. This is the foundation of the constitutional system. In return for a perpetual union to which States have surrendered some of their sovereignty, the imperial government has certain competences.

IMPERIAL REPUBLIC MEANS THE IMPERIAL GOVERNMENT

The imperial government may enter to treaties with foreign powers. Such treaties shall be ratified by the Landsraad. In "Re: Armed Forces of the Imperial Republic", the Judex held that "Imperial Republic", in the Charter, meant the imperial-level government of Shireroth.

The Kaiser can rightly issue decrees for the "direction of the foreign policy of the Imperial Republic" (Ch II A a), but this is for the foreign policy of the imperial republic. As we know, sometimes the policies of the imperial republic are not aligned with that of the states. Think for example of the bloodsports controversy.


LANDSRAAD RATIFIES TREATIES BETWEEN IMP GOV AND FOREIGN POWER
Article III: The Landsraad

...

Section B: Powers

1. The Landsraad:

a) Legislates on matters of common concern to the Imperial States;

b) Levies those taxes deemed necessary for the functioning of the Imperial Republic;

c) Ratifies treaties with foreign powers.
When the Charter speaks of the powers of the Landsraad, it is clear from the context that it is for the imperial government or for whatever is the common concern of the Imperial States. A treaty between the imperial government and a foreign power is a common concern to all States of the federal commonwealth, but a treaty between, say, Goldshire and Craitland, would not be so. Since States have no capacity to violate the Charter in a legal way, any agreement between a State and a foreign power would be subjected to the same legal scrutiny in that State as a proposed treaty would in the imperial level of Shirerithian governance.

For example, if the Landsraad ratifies a treaty that is inconsistent with the Charter, then that treaty's provisions on what is not constitutional would have to be struck down and unenforced. The same would happen in a treaty between Goldshire and Craitland, or, between any treaty between Imperial States themselves.

CONCLUSION

Elwynn believes that the Charter does not give the imperial government, neither through Landsraad or Kaiser, any right to interfere with any agreement that an imperial state enters into, unless that agreement is, once enforced, violates the Charter, in which case the proper judicial procedures should be followed, not legislative and not executive.

In short, the answer to the question should be "No."

Respectfully submitted

Aasmund Vigeland
(for petitioner the Democratic People's Republic of Elwynn)
Elwynn prevails!

Aasmund Vigeland | Аоосмунд Вигыланд
Supreme Commander of the Elwynnese Union Defence Forces
Minister of Military Affairs of the Republic of Shireroth

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Stellus Yastreb
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Stellus Yastreb »

Milord Arbiter,

I would first contend that the ability of Imperial States to arrange treaties with each other is an irrelevance to this case as it is of an exclusively internal Shirerithian nature, and is widely accepted by precedent - not only by the Shirekeep agreeement but by the Treaty of Kingsgate between Elwynn and Goldshire, the negotiations between Kildare and Aryasht over Norfolk et cetera. Treaties between Imperial States are not the issue here.

THE ROLE OF THE LANDSRAAD AS EXCLUSIVE RATIFIER

For treaties with non-Shirerithian powers, let us consider the Imperial Charter. Article III.B.1.c states that the Landsraad "Ratifies treaties with foreign powers". The phrase "foreign power" in the text of the Imperial Charter can be reasonably construed to refer to any non-Shirerithian polity.

The word "ratify" is of more interest, as it implies that the actual drafts of such treaties can come from any source within Shireroth, including the Imperial States, and that the Landsraad's role is to serve as the final stamp of authority upon said treaty.

The very existence of Article III.B.1.c is also of some interest - firstly because, unlike Article II.A.2.a for the Kaiser, it does not restrict its authority to the Imperial Government alone. It simply states that the ratification of treaties with foreign powers is the Landsraad's domain. The existence of this provision at all in the Charter - one of the few Imperial instruments binding the Imperial States in any way - would suggest that the Landsraad is not merely A power in the ratification of treaties with foreign states, but that it is THE power. Id est, that it is the only legitimate authority in the ratification of treaties between ANY Shirerithian polity and a foreign power, and that it cannot be circumvented by Imperial States nor any other polity acting in defiance of its oversight. If there were meant to be some scope for non-Imperial polities to ratify treaties with foreign powers independent of the Landsraad, I contend that Article III.B.c.1 would have been unnecessary and thus would not have been written.

The fact that Article III.B.1.c is a line in its own right, quite seperate from Article III.B.1.a, further proves that the ratification of treaties with foreign power is the Landsraad's exclusive domain regardless of whether or not such treaties are a matter of Common Concern. This provision is intended to avoid the seeding of absurd situations before they do become a Matter of Common Concern, by which time it may be too late to resolve the situation practically. For example, an Imperial State entering into formal military alliance with a foreign power which later falls into a state of war with the Imperial Republic, would place that Imperial State in the absurd situation of being at war with Shireroth while still being a part of it. The initial alliance may not be a Matter of Common Concern during peacetime, but if a war broke out it would very much be so - but by that time the matter would have become merely academic as Shireroth would have begun to fragment beyond function. I believe Article III.B.1.c was written specifically to avoid that type of situation.

Finally I would like to bring the Lord Arbiter's attention to a precedent which he may find enlightening - the case of the Imperial Republic v. the Dutchy of Kildare in 5249 ASC, wherein the Judex ruled in favour of the exclusivity of the Landsraad in ratifying treaties with foreign powers.

CONCLUSION

While the Kaiser does not have the privilege of final ratification of treaties between Imperial States and foreign powers, the Imperial Republic contends that the Landsraad IS vested with that power to the exclusion of all other polities inclusing the Imperial States themselves; moreover that this state of affairs is reflected in the Charter, not only in letter but in spirit.

The Reply of the Respondent is Thus Submitted.

Stellus Yastreb
For the Imperial Republic of Shireroth
Stellus Ryabinevich Dolorvenuk Yastreb
- Count of Lunaris in the Duchy of Goldshire
Head of the House of Yastreb, honoured throughout history as follows: Member of the Order of the Dragon, recipent of the Silver Swan Award (Imperial) recipent of the Order of the Silver Orchid (Elwynn) Knight Comrade of the Order of Mischievous Intent (Yardistan) Arx-Piscator of the Piscatores Alexandrii (Brookshire) Knight of the Nishan-i-Liaqat (Babkha), Paranoid Narcissist (everywhere)

Malliki Nur Pinito
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Malliki Nur Pinito »

I thank both the Petitioner and Responder. I also wish to inform the Respondent that the form of these proceedings is provided for by law.

I now await the Petitioner's rebuttal.
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Ryker
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Ryker »

This is not of MiniEx concern until such a document as a state-issued treaty is taken as a legitimate proposal. I'm afraid that this is a matter to be dealt with by the MiniInt as international relations are not yet concerned, that is all.
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Aasmund Vigeland »

Comrade Arbiter,

Since my legal aides have tarried and not been able to produce a rebuttal within the allocated time-frame, Elwynn waives its right to rebuttal at this time.
Elwynn prevails!

Aasmund Vigeland | Аоосмунд Вигыланд
Supreme Commander of the Elwynnese Union Defence Forces
Minister of Military Affairs of the Republic of Shireroth

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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Stellus Yastreb »

Milord Arbiter,

As there is no Petitioner's Rebuttal to rebut, the Imperial Republic similarly waives its own right of Rebuttal.
Stellus Ryabinevich Dolorvenuk Yastreb
- Count of Lunaris in the Duchy of Goldshire
Head of the House of Yastreb, honoured throughout history as follows: Member of the Order of the Dragon, recipent of the Silver Swan Award (Imperial) recipent of the Order of the Silver Orchid (Elwynn) Knight Comrade of the Order of Mischievous Intent (Yardistan) Arx-Piscator of the Piscatores Alexandrii (Brookshire) Knight of the Nishan-i-Liaqat (Babkha), Paranoid Narcissist (everywhere)

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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Malliki Nur Pinito »

Thank you both. 24 hours for amicus curiae briefs.
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Malliki Nur Pinito »

24 hours for closing statements from both parties.
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Malliki Nur Pinito »

Both parties have waived their right to closing arguments. The opinion of the Judex is coming.
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Malliki Nur Pinito »

IMPERIAL JUDEX

Re: Treaty powers of Imperial States

Petitioner: Aasmund Vigeland, DPR Elwynn
Respondent: Steward of Shireroth

JUDGMENT

The Petitioner has asked the Judex to give its opinion on the following question:

Does a treaty between an Imperial State and a foreign power need to be ratified by the Landsraad?

The answer will be limited to this rather narrow question. I have also weighed in the arguments from both parties.

Article V, Section B, states that the Imperial States are sovereign in all matters not expressly reserved to other institutions in the Charter. Article III, Section B, states that the Landsraad "ratifies treaties with foreign powers". To limit that power to treaties between the Imperial government and foreign powers could lead to unwanted consequences, as pointed out by the Respondent. Therefore, the section must be construed to mean any treaty involving any Shirerithian entity.

It is the opinion of the Imperial Judex that any treaty between an Imperial State and a foreign power must be ratified by the Landsraad to have effect. However, the Imperial Judex does not give an opinion on whether such treaties are legal or not.
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Re: Question re states and treaties

Post by Aasmund Vigeland »

I thank the Judex for its time.
Elwynn prevails!

Aasmund Vigeland | Аоосмунд Вигыланд
Supreme Commander of the Elwynnese Union Defence Forces
Minister of Military Affairs of the Republic of Shireroth

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