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 Post subject: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:45 am 
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IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy

Hear! Hear!

WHEREAS We wish to keep the Imperial Republic of Shireroth firmly onto the Golden Path towards a more pleasant community of mature and stable persons which is devoid of various forms of uncivil behaviour. A place where the earth exults, the sky laughs and everything is full of milk, of honey, and of nectar, and in which the Shirithian Citizenry shall feel good and safe when exercising their Liberté de Vivre and making their invaluable contributions to the national project;

AND WHEREAS it is Our further Imperial Wish and Desire that the Siblinghood of the Shirithian Nation be based on the virtues of elegance, politeness, civility, grace, Societal Harmony, and wisdom as well as the values of willingness to build consensus, recognition of creative domain, respect for your fellow sentient beings great and small, and respect for hard work;

LET IT THEREFORE BE KNOWN throughout the Lands of the Golden Mango Throne that:


1. Shireroth's open-door immigration policy hitherto in effect is hereby consigned to the dustbin of history and in consequence thereof shall Shirithian Citizenship from henceforth only be conferred upon those applicants of whom it is deemed that they are fit and proper persons for Shirithian Citizenship and their presence among the membership of the Siblinghood of the Shirithian Nation is conductive to the Good of the Imperial Republic.

2. From this day forth shall any person applying for membership in the Siblinghood of the Shirithian Nation be put through a rigorous process of vetting to establish whether zie is a fit and proper person for life in a creative national community which is based on elegance, politeness, civility, grace, Societal Harmony, and wisdom as well as the values of willingness to build consensus, recognition of creative domain, respect for one's fellow sentient beings great and small, and respect for hard work, and also that zir presence among the membership in the Siblinghood of the Shirithian Nation is conductive to the Good of the Imperial Republic.

3. The process of vetting mentioned in Article 2 of this Our Imperial Instrument shall be undertaken based on the potential immigrant's conduct as a foreigner, both as guest in Shireroth and beyond the borders of the Lands of the Golden Mango Throne, and must be based on evaluating whether the applicant has engaged in any behaviors and criteria listed as causes for deportation in Imperial Decree #699 which was issued by Our Imperial Brother the Good Kaiser Ayreon III.

4. The competent authority, to wit: Us or Our Minister of the Interior, may take any measure or institute any policy zie deems necessary or expedient with regard to the vetting process.

5. When the competent authority is, somewhere into the process of vetting, satisfied that an applicant is a fit and proper person who meets the requirements of Article 2 the competent authority shall confer Denizenship upon the applicant. Should the competent authority be satisfied otherwise, zie shall deny the application.

6. Denizenship shall give an applicant the privilege to participate anywhere in the Imperial Dominions of Shireroth, save for the Landsraad and those forums which are off-limits to non-Citizens. It may be revoked by the competeny authority at any time.

7. The competent authority shall continue to scrutinize the conduct of an individual during zir period of Denizenship.

8. The competent authority may subsequent to the passing of at least one Elw year after the conferment of Denizenship upon a applicant confer Shirithian Citizenship upon such person in the event that zie has behaved zirself well.

9. We do hereby declare and confirm that any person not a Citizen of Shireroth who misbehaves in the Imperial Dominions of Shireroth or whose removal from the aforesaid Imperial Subdivisions of the Lands of the Golden Mango Throne is otherwise conductive to the Good of the Imperial Republic shall be dealt with in accordance with the provisions of Imperial Decree #699 which was issued by Our Imperial Brother the Good Kaiser Ayreon III.

10. The Tower of Bureaucratic Despair shall maintain a list of persons who have been deported from the Imperial Dominions of Shireroth under Imperial Decree #699.

"May the lion not hurt you during Love's Great Adventure!"

Deeds of Tuuler Kalir and Björka Hnossdóttir through their descendants!

________

So Decreed in this Six Thousand Two Hundred and Thirtieth Year since the Founding of the Sector by the Hand Imperial of Hjalmar Redquill at the Kaiseral Court at Raynor's Keep.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:10 pm 
Ayn Rand's toyboy
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Ironic that you take respect and civility as Shirithian values, considering the rather unpolite words you tend to use, Eddie. And I also am not quite sure that holding and cherishing a two year old personal grudge is a sign of maturity.

I'll wait until Shireroth gets a sensible Kaiser again.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:22 pm 
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OOC: Jack, the nasty words we exchanged via PM were personal between us. You've been throwing your fair share of barbs at me as well, so at least concede that you're in no position to speak to me of maturity. Also, don't call me Eddie. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:30 pm 
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Kaiser Hjalmar Redquill wrote:
OOC: Jack, the nasty words we exchanged via PM were personal between us. You've been throwing your fair share of barbs at me as well, so at least concede that you're in no position to speak to me of maturity. Also, don't call me Eddie. Thanks.


I find it seriously troubling that you take this OOC grievance so far as to spend this much effort on keeping me out of Shireroth and preventing me from having some fun in Goldshire with some of the people in this hobby that I actually get along with. It is entirely from your side that this strange grudge keeps returning. I allowed Alexandria a massive expantion that I could have stopped, but I am not as childish as to spoil this hobby for others because I don't particularly like you. I find it a seriously low blow.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:45 pm 
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OOC: I see it differently, but fair enough. Also since you are leader of Calbion, it would have been easy to argue that you should have recused from a claim that voting on could have put you at a serious conflict of interest. I want to block any of your own OOC grievances against me and Harald to turn into IC rabblerousing and trolling. But honestly, I find it comical that you claim not to be childish enough to ruin the hobby for other people. I think there could be many people that would step forward and say the same about you. I remain open to being proven wrong, Jack. But I don't feel inclined to turn the other cheek IC if you're gonna use IC actions to pursue OOC vendettas. So I provided you with a taste of your own medicine and you're throwing a fit. Fair enough.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:52 pm 
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My actions in Shireroth, aside from the topic "100 days" have always been IC. Contrary to what you think, I do not have OOC grievances with anyone, until now really, since I do feel that this crosses a line, but I also know that you are not a bad person per se, I just think you are making a mistake here. I felt I extended a hand to you in my pm, and assured you that I wanted to put the IC bickering aside, only to be met with the reply "fuck off". Clearly I misjudged the extent to which IC differences can lead to a personal OOC dislike of an actual person, since that has never really occured to me. Of course one has more of a connection with some people than others, but I have to say that I am suprised by the bitterness of your responses towards me. I don't think that I have done that to you in the past ever.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:53 pm 
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Also, how is this a "taste of my own medicine"? I can't remember any IC action of mine that was undertaken by OOC sentiment.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:55 pm 
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Jack, I just want to clarify something for you. And I'm doing this with the utmost sincerity I can muster for you. This whole ordeal isn't caused (only) by some undeserved personal grudges with people you don't get along with. This is a response to the kind of activity you are known to generate as well as your notorious disregard for the respect of others. Whether it's just you playing a character or not is irrelevant. It's the fact that it's the only type of character we ever see. A holier-than-thou victim-card-carrying arrogant man (or woman) who barely follows through in anything creative or productive he attempts and rage quits whenever boredom strikes. It's predictable and annoying after a while and serves no purpose aside from, once in a blue moon, generating activity through controversy. It is, I believe, for those reasons that you are no longer welcome here.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:01 pm 
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Ryker wrote:
Jack, I just want to clarify something for you. And I'm doing this with the utmost sincerity I can muster for you. This whole ordeal isn't caused by undeserved personal grudges with people you don't get along with. This is a response to the kind of activity you are known to generate as well as your notorious disregard for the respect of others. Whether it's just you playing a character or not is irrelevant. It's the fact that it's the only type of character we ever see. A holier-than-thou victim-card-carrying arrogant man (or woman) who barely follows through in anything creative or productive he attempts and rage quits whenever boredom strikes. It's predictable and annoying after a while and serves no purpose aside from, once in a blue moon, generating activity through controversy. It is, I believe, for those reasons that you are no longer welcome here.


This seems to be a rather selective reading of my tenure in Shireroth, Ryker. It is also unfair given the time I spent here, and the contributions I have made to Shireroth. What you might perceive as "boredom" is in most cases a simple lack of time, since I am both studying and working as a teacher. It is a bit insulting to ridiculise my participation in Shireroth in this way.

Also, there are a lot of citizens here who value my contributions and presence and have asked me to return. So you might not really be eager to welcome me, but I don't think you can make that a general statement.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:11 pm 
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Jack wrote:
This seems to be a rather selective reading of my tenure in Shireroth, Ryker. It is also unfair given the time I spent here, and the contributions I have made to Shireroth. What you might perceive as "boredom" is in most cases a simple lack of time, since I am both studying and working as a teacher. It is a bit insulting to ridiculise my participation in Shireroth in this way.

Also, there are a lot of citizens here who value my contributions and presence and have asked me to return. So you might not really be eager to welcome me, but I don't think you can make that a general statement.

You may be right, and forgive me for being quite biased against you, but the fact remains that you have some serious issue with respecting others and you often come across as egotistical and uncaring for the work of fellow micronationalists.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:12 pm 
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Ryker wrote:
You may be right, and forgive me for being quite biased against you, but the fact remains that you have some serious issue with respecting others and you often come across as egotistical and uncaring for the work of fellow micronationalists.


Please give me an example of this. It's easy to throw around words like this, but I'd like to know what you are referring to.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:31 pm 
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Also, for now I am fine with this situation and will continue with the Blackstone storyline about the exiled Verions. But I do hope that cooler heads will prevail in the upcoming weeks.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:38 pm 
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Jack wrote:
Please give me an example of this. It's easy to throw around words like this, but I'd like to know what you are referring to.

viewtopic.php?f=357&t=17649
viewtopic.php?f=1224&t=12207
https://micrasobserver.wordpress.com/20 ... galomania/ (though, to your credit, it has been an amusing read in the years since. Great for parties)

I also gave you Krufnsilfr so we could work together, a place I spent months preparing for and established a nice skeleton culture for. Your only impacting contribution there was to change the name to Crowsilver (which is a mistranslation), make a new flag, and fill out a census form.

Those are the four that come immediately to mind. I was personally invested in most of them so I don't think that's all of them, just what I can think of right now.


All the drama aside, I agree with the idea behind the decree, It's important to have some level of control over who is allowed to affect Shireroth from within.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:47 pm 
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Ryker wrote:
Jack wrote:
Please give me an example of this. It's easy to throw around words like this, but I'd like to know what you are referring to.

viewtopic.php?f=357&t=17649
viewtopic.php?f=1224&t=12207
https://micrasobserver.wordpress.com/20 ... galomania/ (though, to your credit, it has been an amusing read in the years since. Great for parties)


You refer to the same topic I already conceded, and two clearly IC topics. As I recall, you weren't too bothered by the Micras Observer article back when I published it, since you perfectly understand the context. I still cannot see any OOC actions against you. But this was merely an issue with His Niftiness in the first place. Contrary to what you might think, I have never hated you or even disliked you much.

Quote:
I also gave you Krufnsilfr so we could work together, a place I spent months preparing for and established a nice skeleton culture for. Your only impacting contribution there was to change the name to Crowsilver (which is a mistranslation) and fill out a census form.


That is not correct, I wrote a few stories about the place. Also I don't really get what you mean by "months preparing for", because it seemed to me you were not interested in the place at all and actually offered it to anyone who was interested. Sure I could have done more with it. But I have still done much more with it than you had. Also, you seem to have abandoned Suthergold as well. I think that pushing these remarks about a lack of involvement might come back to haunt you, if we actually would look up the naked facts.

At any rate, this seems like an obvious justification of your apparent dislike of me by reinterpreting actions in hindsight as to suit your storyline. I'm not really impressed by that at all, in fact, I think it smells like trickery.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 5:49 pm 
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I assume this ends our talk, Ryker, since I'm really more interested in hearing His Niftiness' response. We might see things a little different, but there is no need to exagerate it into an OOC feud, since that clearly was not the case, as I have made clear to you in PM numerous times, and which you also accepted.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:01 pm 
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I'm going to clear the air for a sec. I don't not like you. I honestly don't know what to think of you. I actually wish we could meet in person so I could get a better read on what you're actually like. But all I have to go on is my interaction with you in this hobby. For one reason or another, I have seen that interaction as mostly negative, hence my current disposition to lash out against you. If I'm being completely honest with myself, I don't know why I'm even involved in all this (the present issue, I mean). Maybe I wanted to hop on a bandwagon for the hell of it. Maybe the last few days IRL have taken a bigger toll on my mood than I thought they had. Whatever the case may be, I'll leave you with this: I wish you the best and hope I won't always feel this way towards you.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:12 pm 
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Well, you were not the one who vetoed my re-application. I leave everyone free to think of me what they want, but I don't really like to be deliberately hindered in what I perceive to be a hobby, so that is where my problem lies. I don't ask of you or the Kaiser to like me at all, just don't take personal dislike to this level, which is basically unprecedented in Shireroth.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 6:25 pm 
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Back to the decree itself, for a moment.

Quote:
That said, the vagueness of the policy is open to being easily abused if a current Shirerithian has a falling out with the government and resigns his or her citizenship in protest, much as Verion did. In such a scenario, the Imperial Government can simply judge the person as impolite, due to the past disagreement, and that person can be excluded from rejoining Shireroth indefinitely.

The policy, if abusively managed by the same sensitive human emotions that led to its decree, will lead to Shireroth’s population being pruned into a narrow clique, which may ultimately spur the 16-year old micronation’s demise.


I think Liam Sinclair has managed to effectively encapsulate the concerns I have about this policy. It's not entirely without precedent in the sector, I gather that Minarboria's vetting process resembles a tag team effort between the Gestapo and the NKVD, and if Benkern ever pops up again he can confirm that, back in Babkha, even when Shah he had, as the 'relative newbie', about the same level of trust and SAVAK access as the Albanian janitor we kept for the shit jobs. However I do find myself wondering whether we may be in danger of going to far in the direction of being overly sensitive of criticism/dissent. At the very least there should be a system where good faith is imputed to applicants until a complaint is received and investigated during the period of probation/denizenship.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 7:19 pm 
The Third Ryke
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I will admit that the decree, as it currently stands, seems like overkill to me.

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 Post subject: Re: IMPERIAL DECREE 814: Official Immigration Policy
PostPosted: Sun Aug 28, 2016 9:24 pm 
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The decree specifically lists the criteria to be observed when vetting applicants to be based on Imperial Decree #699 which is well-established precedent. But I am open to constructive criticism and to fine-tuning the policy, such as looping in public comment through SEP forum discussions into the vetting process for example, as well as any other ideas others may have.

However the whole accusation of enabling cliques... that's been happening regardless of this policy, a staple of micronationalism since the first day I started. I don't think, genuinely, this is going to speed up the process and bring the AWFUL DOOM OF SHIREROTH™ that many have constantly predicted at the top of their lungs for years. The point of the policy is to build a community that is more inclusive and respectful of each other, regardless of the actions of people in the past. I understand there are concerns however, and I'm more than willing to address them accordingly if people are willing to cooperate.

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