We've come a long way in the last decade

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We've come a long way in the last decade

Postby Andreas the Wise » Sat Mar 29, 2014 8:54 am

Or perhaps not. Reading some old essays on micronational economics that I stumbled upon while putting together an article for the Journal of Micronational Studies, it was fascinating to see that the same problems they had in 2002 were also there in 2007, when I joined, and some of them are still here now (though at least the SCUE deals with currency arbitrarily changing in value based on complicated formulaes, and also provides us with that nice functional electronic banking system). The debates around the use of the MCS map and how seriously we should take it hasn't changed too much either =p
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Re: We've come a long way in the last decade

Postby Harvey » Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:45 pm

12ish years later, I still agree with past-me.
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Re: We've come a long way in the last decade

Postby Orion » Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:10 pm

Ari Rahikkala wrote:The fundamental problem and wealth of micronationalism... We don't have any high committee or any other decisive power who could say how much stuff people get from doing things, how well their companies fare, how their tactics in war succeed... This is why virtual goods economies and .gifwars have failed: There's nobody who has the power to decide who wins and who loses. Compare micronationalism to some MMORPG, like Everquest. Everquest has centralization, Everquest has people who have the power to decide. In Everquest players can be kicked out by the people who have the power to decide. In Everquest the people who have the power to decide can throw any amount of monsters at a player if they want to. Micronationalism is different. Even if you and your enemy both stated how much forces they have in a war, there is nobody who can decide who actually wins ground and how much.

I can't think up any case of anyone doing the same what we are doing now... Creating a high decisive body for an RPG that does not have any such body yet, and still give it only limited power. This calls for some philosophical studying...


And this is still my argument, 12 years later.
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Re: We've come a long way in the last decade

Postby Andreas the Wise » Sat Mar 29, 2014 10:37 pm

And it's a good argument. In many ways, this is what Gralus did with its magic system, and so as a combination of a clearly defined system and people being willing to not have to win absolutely every single thing our magical recwards worked reasonably well. And this is precisely what the MCS does (to the extent that we even start to question whether it should have as much power as we give it). Which leads me to wonder whether maybe people do want more economic structure than they care to admit - the SCUE was founded on an entirely laissez-faire system - and it's now (somehow, despite people not doing that much with it) established a reputation as "that thing people who want to have economies join" - is their scope to use it to establish more standardised rules that are helpful for people?

I'm going to keep this comments in mind as I put my article together, and see if we can come up with something helpful.
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Re: We've come a long way in the last decade

Postby Orion » Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:08 pm

Many eons ago back when I was first bandying the recwar idea about, I was also bandying the idea that we could use receconomics as a way to regulate things like supply and demand. You need a basic commodity foundation in place for an economy to work. Nation X has mogdonium, Nation Y has plastinium, so the two have a basis for trade and thus a foundation for economic growth. To regulate everything is a lot of work and nigh impossible for an individual or organization. My suggestion at the time was to automate it with some sort of randomizing agent connected to a resource database. Either that or a resource bank that tracks the amount of resources in a given area. These resources can then be extracted/withdrawn, like cash from a bank; but unlike a bank cannot be returned, only stored. Resources would gain natural growth (interest) and accumulate more the longer they're left alone (e.g. don't cut so much lumber and you have faster growing forests). Or a nation could institute recycling measures and increase stored quantities; kicking on an interest growth on stored quantities. Finally, withdrawn/stored resources could be traded for other resources and/or cash.
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Re: We've come a long way in the last decade

Postby Ryker » Sun Mar 30, 2014 7:36 am

Jeez. I was still trying to count past 20 back then (Oh to be thirty again). I'm not kidding sbout the counting part, by the way, I was a wee lad.
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Re: We've come a long way in the last decade

Postby Andreas the Wise » Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:15 am

I know, it was all before my time too.

Though Choygal - it's an interesting idea, though I'd want to see at least 3-5 people enthusiastic about it before I'd consider it viable. Resource based economies tend to have problems with nations of vastly different land sizes on Micras (as well as generally being complex), so I'd want to get more people interested first.
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Re: We've come a long way in the last decade

Postby Gordoth » Tue Apr 08, 2014 9:15 pm

Problems are never new, but solutions are! That is unless you are an academic and you get paid to come up with new problems!

Interesting reading though! Looking forward to your article.
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